We’ve covered all types of businesses on the BootstrapMD podcast, but one of the areas that we have not covered that has had a tremendous amount of interest is developing successful phone apps. This internist reached out to me over six months ago, and I’m so glad we are finally able to bring him on the show!
Dr. Daniel Erichsen is a sleep specialist and the founder of Bedtyme, an app to help people overcome insomnia through better sleep education. We cover, warts and all, how he brought this app to the marketplace, and is now certifying sleep health educators to spread his vision even further. I think you’ll enjoy and learn a lot from this lively interview!
Bedtyme – health app to help insomnia sufferers restore the power of sleep
The Sleep Health School – online sleep education and coaching portal
Sleep Health School Youtube and Podcast
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 0:17
Hey guys, it’s Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Welcome to another episode of BootstrapMD. If you’ve been following us on the program, you know, I love to spotlight physician entrepreneurs. And actually, last summer, this doctor reached out to me, and unfortunately, I don’t know if it went into my spam folder, or not, but once I heard about his story, I said, I need to have this physician on. His name is Dr. Daniel Erichsen. He is from Eugene, Oregon. He’s a sleep specialist. But he had an idea about just basically sharing his message more out into the world. You know, outside of his patients, he saw that there was a dearth of information on insomnia and other aspects related to sleep, and he wanted to create an app. And I know many of you are interested in either creating an app or maybe you have an app available, and maybe you don’t know how to market it. He was actually successful six weeks after he launched his app. We’re gonna hear all about the trials and tribulations that actually led to creating a website for certification of sleep providers. But enough from me, they want to hear from you, Dr. Daniel Erichsen, welcome to the show.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 1:31
Thanks so much for having me. I really, really enjoy talking to you.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 1:35
This is good. And, you know, I think a lot of times when I have a lot of doctors who either are entrepreneurs, or what I call want-trepreneurs, and maybe they live vicariously through us, and I always try to highlight examples of doctors who are actually out there in the trenches. So, before we begin, I always like to hear about origin stories, a little bit of a comic book nerd, you know, how did Peter Parker become Spider Man? So how did you become, from Dr. Daniel Erickson to the sleep coach?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 2:08
So absolutely, it’s a good one. And you know, I love this origin story. So I’ll share mine, which is this one. So just very briefly, my core specialties are actually in pediatrics, and I was I did my residency back in the Bronx, New York. And I thought I was going to be like, I knew I needed to, I wanted to niche down to become a little bit more narrow, and I thought it would be an intensivist maybe, or something like that. But I realized that lifestyle wasn’t for me, I wanted something more kind of, you know, more lifestyle friendly, if you will. And it so happened that a friend of mine just mentioned, hey Daniel, do you know that there’s a fellowship and sleep medicine? And I was really curious and intrigued, and I applied, got it, got the fellowship, and I really enjoyed it. And during fellowship, I learned mostly about sleep apnea. That’s like the big thing and a little bit about insomnia. But then, as I started practicing as an attending, which is about 10 years now, 10 years ago, now, I saw that insomnia is really, really a big problem. You know, just as big as sleep apnea. A lot of people struggle with sleep. And I would teach these methods called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. It’s kind of a mouthful, but it’s quite straight forward. And I would always, or very often, I would ask people, you know, when I heard them talk about their insomnia, I would say, Have you heard about CBTI? Have you heard about CBT? And you know, either they would say no, or do they go like CBD? Yeah, I’ve tried that. I’ve tried CBD. I was like, no, not CBD, CBT. And so anyway, that’s this just a way of saying, like, I realized that there were millions of people struggling and like, really, virtually nobody got like, a helpful message. So that’s, somewhere along the journey, I was like, there has to be a better way. There must be a way of getting the message out there to people. And that’s how I kind of transitioned, you know, towards being a sleep coach.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 4:00
Now, you know, most of our listeners, we do have doctors and non doctors but you know, most of our listeners are doctors. And I can’t even remember if we got any education on sleep. I know a lot of us had lack of sleep, I know I did in my residency, and we continue to have this and obviously, it’s a huge problem. So can you define for us, what is your definition of insomnia?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 4:26
No, no, that’s really good question. I’m very important because it’s there’s often a lot of confusion, sleep deprivation, which which we had as residents, is very different. That’s just you don’t have enough opportunity for sleep. And when you get a chance to sleep, you typically have no problems whatsoever sleeping you asleep really easily, in fact. Where as insomnia, it’s a struggle. It’s when somebody tells you like, I just can’t fall asleep. I can’t stay asleep no matter what I do nothing helps. And that’s the sense that there’s something wrong and basically, they’re really, really trying hard to sleep but sleep just doesn’t happen for them. That struggle, that is insomnia.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 5:03
So, when you were deciding to create an app, first, why did you consider creating an app for insomnia?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 5:13
That’s a good question. And that actually goes back to a not very successful venture with an app actually many, many years ago. This was just after I finished fellowship. And I had this idea that you could create an app that people could take their smartphone, and use this, you know, the thing you use like, when you’re jogging, you put on your arm? People could put their smartphone on their legs, and check if they had like leg movements, kind of like restless legs in their sleep and monitor it. And that’s one of those, like, you create a product that nobody wants. There’s no interest for that whatsoever.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 5:47
Or at least it’s hard to market.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 5:49
It’s hard to market, exactly. And hard to get people interested in. But that was with a friend who was a programer himself. So apps were a little bit on my radar. And I had a little bit of experience with it. And, so I just felt like with everybody having a smartphone and the ease of just downloading an app and being right there, that sort of, you know, led me towards thinking an app would be a really good way.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 6:17
Now, the app is called Bedtyme, and that’s B-e-d-t-y-m-e, so it’s with a “Y”. How did that get started?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 6:25
Yes. So what happens so in clinic, very briefly here, the core of CBTI, is that, someone who has trouble sleeping often spends a lot of time in bed, and actually, when they spend less time in bed and are more sleepy when they go to bed, that typically helps. So I had this idea, and I realize it was kind of a naive idea that, you could basically boil it down to an algorithm. That if somebody said, Okay, I’m going to spend this amount of time in bed, and it calculates how much percentage of that based sleep, then it could do a suggestion, it could be basically almost like an automatic solution. So I thought that was fantastic, when I thought of the idea. And so I thought, this could be a simple algorithmic solution that could really help people. So and the idea actually came to me during the sleep conference in 2017, in June in Boston. I just I had that idea. And it took awhile, It took about six months until I started executing it. And I found online, on like one of these websites, I found a developer in Russia that could build it for me. And, you know, it was expensive, it was like 40 bucks an hour. And the total cost of creating that app honestly, was probably like $40 or $50,000 or something. And the sad part of that was that, my wife actually was sort of skeptical. She was like, Daniel, how is this actually going to help people? I was like, Oh it’s gonna work great, people are just gonna sleep better. But she was right. When we launched that first one, people used it, but nobody actually got better. Because it was lacking in education and support and guidance, etc., people didn’t really do much better. But another learning point here is that you often have an idea and you launch it, and then easily at that point, I could have easily gone, Oh, no, it didn’t work. Let me like scratch the whole idea. But I knew there was something there. So that became a complete rehaul, where instead, I added a curriculum and built in coach within the app. And that’s when it really started to work. So you mentioned like, six weeks after launching, it started making money. That was actually a relaunch, but since then, it has is starting doing really, really well.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 8:43
So you mentioned it cost, maybe $40 to $50,000. Was it just the development time for the algorithm? Or was this guy taking you for a ride? What’s what, tell me more about that? That’s a pretty expensive for an app. Or is it? I don’t know.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 8:59
I would say overall, I think development costs are coming down quickly, but I think they were a good company. It was just that the way I had created it, It was pretty complex and it did require a lot of work. But what then happened was, actually was very serendipitous, my kids had a playdate with another kid, and they’re dad was mentioning that he was an app developer. And he actually did different types of apps where the first one was like native only for for iOS only for Apple. But there are these softwares now where you can create for both, and we used so he used that. So anyway, long story short here, that recreating it actually became much less costly than the first one. So for anyone out there thinking about it, we use software that can can create for both. And that becomes much less costly.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 10:08
Now, so you found a local developer, a friend, or a friend of a friend. Did that seem to speed up the development process, rather than going overseas?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 10:18
It was much, it was so much better. You know, imagine with the first developer that was in Russia, and again, they were nice people. But it was also like, I’d have to sketch things on a paper, take a picture and send it to them, they created it, they sent it back to me. Then I’d have to say, oh no this is not what I wanted. And also, what was so nerve racking, honestly, was that whenever there was a bug, I had to describe it to them, they had to try to figure it out, and then create a new build, and it could take like weeks. And in the meantime, a client couldn’t access anything. It was very nerve racking, it’s so much better to have someone within the company. And by the way, the local person, we found his name is Hank, I gave him a part of the company, for him to become the CTO. And that also, when we have somebody on board like that, it makes a huge difference.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 11:13
Yeah, yeah, that opens up a whole lot of new questions. And I know we’re gonna probably gonna get a lot a lot of feedback from this call. But just so I have the timeframe, so you originally launched it in 2017?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 11:28
The idea came June 2017, started actually working on it with this Russian company in like January of 2018. And launched it for the first time in, I want to say was like, August or September of 2018. And then it took about like, six months to figure out that the initial thing wasn’t working. We relaunched it with the same Russian company, like a second relaunch, you know, when was that? That was like,maybe mid 2019. And then, the final reversion happened, and then that relaunch was about the time I emailed you.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 12:09
Okay. Okay, so that was in July.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 12:11
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 12:13
So when you initially made your deal with the local developer, was it strictly cash for services? Or did you say, Hey, I’m going to give you a piece of the company? When did that discussion happen?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 12:29
No, no, absolutely. That is a very good question. And it’s a nice piece of the story there. So we had this play date and he talked about how he was an app developer. and me and my wife, and by the way, she’s a big part of the company, most of the good ideas come from her. We were kind of like, He’s perfect for us and he lives in Eugene. It’s kind of crazy. So I literally when I came home, I just texted him and said, Hey, do you want to meet up in Starbucks tomorrow? And we did. So he came there. And I was a little bit nervous, because I really wanted him. But I had to, like, convince him that this was a good idea. So I basically told him, like, Listen, we have this app. And we have seen that people are willing to pay money for this type of service. And we have brought in a little bit of money. So I was just convincing him that it would be a good deal. And I offered him a small percentage in the company, for him to become the CTO. And now he has a team in China that he works with for other purposes, so he just oversees it. And then we’ve paid them a little bit anddevelopers, but that that’s how it happened, basically.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 13:31
Great, great. Great. That’s really good to know. So let’s talk about the app itself. I know we talked a little bit about it. It’s called Bedtyme, and what it’s all about.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 13:44
Absolutely. So again, when somebody has trouble sleeping, like insomnia, it’s sort of like an anxiety and miseducation thing. So it’s really pretty straightforward. And by the way, I want to quickly mention that there is this very successful app for weight loss that is called Noom, you know about it? We basically have the exact same model, we took it from them really. So every day on the app, you get this like an educational text module…
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 14:16
We might have to edit that out, by the way, just kidding!
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 14:24
No problem. Although, I don’t think they mind actually, I’ve told them that I took it from them on Twitter. They said something like, Oh, you know, good for you or something like that. So they know it. But yeah, so every day you get an educational text module and and you have access to coaching within the app. And that actually, is it. So every day you learn something and there’s a little tracking function, you can count see how you’re doing? And that’s it. It’s pretty simple that is it.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 14:53
So you’re going to steal my thunder because there’s this joke that I had my back my head, you just give them content so they fall asleep. How does it work? It’s a paid model or free trial? How’s the financials? How do you set that up?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 15:12
Yeah, exactly, I think it’s called freemium. So it’s free for one week and then, it’s kind of like Netflix, you sign up for free, but you do give your payment information, so if you if you don’t unsubscribe, then you are subscribed, and you will be charged after one week. And, we started off with a two week free trial, and then it was, I believe, $39 per month and then we went up to $69. And, the thing is that it requires a lot of education and coaching. So if you compare to other products, this is still very cheap. So we actually just a few weeks ago, we upped the price to $129. So after a free trial, it’s $129, which I think is going to be a good price for a long period of time. But people are still purchasing it, it’s still doing well, etc. So that’s our current model.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 16:03
I gotta ask, are you willing to share numbers? Either like users or revenue, you know, from the app?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 16:10
Absolutely. So at this point in time, in my interface as a coach only, I only see the clients that I talked with in the last week. So there are probably more, but I think I have around 40 to 50 active paying clients. But we only recently changed the price. So I’ll share with you that at this point in time, the app is bringing in probably around $2500 a month.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 16:37
Very nice. Very nice. Now, I know that you’re a sleep specialist. Has that been able to allow you to reduce your hours? Or are you still working full time? How has this effected your job, your career?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 16:53
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I’m still I haven’t actually paid myself anything from the money we’re bringing in. And I have gone down to a part time position. So I went down 100% to 70%. And partly it is because yeah, I really want to focus more on the side projects. And, partly it was because of COVID, too, things became very slow. I’m RVU based, so it made sense also to decrease my time. So right now, I’m working 70%, three days a week.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 17:24
Now, I like what you said, you know, it’s very difficult to hit a home run when you’re first up at bat. And it’s actually gratifying to hear, you mentioned that you had a failure, your first first attempt didn’t succeed as you wanted it to. You got the app out of the way, it’s successful. It’s on iOS, and now it’s on Android as well. You mentioned that you there are companies out there that let you do both. And then I guess, if you could go back in a time machine and change it, you probably start with that. Are there any other lessons learned from from this app? Or did everything go as smooth, as you’re telling us it did?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 18:12
No, it was not very smooth at all, actually. You know, again, the first version of the app, which was quite expensive, the idea was not sound, it was not a good model. So I think for anyone out there that has this, you know, fairly ambitious like entrepreneur idea, your first product may very well be not that great. But you can learn so much from that if you’re willing to change trajectory, learn from from what didn’t work, then iteration by iteration, you will get to a product that works. That’s huge.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 18:52
Now, sometimes you see things like with Shark Tank, or they’ll have a commercial where they’re launching a product and they click the on button, I’m sure seeing this in like dollar signs appearing. But we all know, that’s not reality. How did you get your app? How did you start marketing it? How did how do people find you? I don’t know what the landscape is on sleep related apps out there. How did you really stand out in the marketplace?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 19:23
Oh, that’s a great question. And that leads us to kind of a whole different topic. So when I started working on this app, I was like, I think I’m starting to become an entrepreneur. I have to learn more about this. And you know, went on YouTube and like heard people talk and stuff like that. And one person that I came across that you probably come across them is Gary Vaynerchuk or Gary V. So for anyone who isn’t familair, he’s many things but one thing he’s really good with is marketing and social media, etc. So one thing he said I believe I heard him say it, and I read it in one of his books too, was that whenever you have an idea, you’ve got to start talking about it, you got to start talking about your idea. And that, that hit home with me, I was like, I gotta do that. So I started a YouTube channel, like two and a half years ago. And I just talked about sleep and insomnia, and shared whatever I knew about it. And that became super important for many reasons. I will say actually, number one was this, that I thought I understood insomnia, but I didn’t. You know, I only partially understood it. Then when people would submit comments, I was like, oh, that’s a good call, I haven’t thought about that. It really made me understand and my teaching improved immensely. That was number one. Number two is, I built a following. Little by little, and this is a slow process, but little by little, more and more people found it and the channel grew. So when I had a product, I had somebody that could share it, and they almost became like my beta testers, you know, my followers. So that is basically all the marketing is through that YouTube channel, and also word of mouth and a little bit other things. But that became really helpful.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 21:10
I love it. So basically, free content. So you’re not paying for advertising at this point?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 21:18
No, I mean, we’ve done like, $10 Facebook campaigns, fiddled around a little bit, but it really, it’s only content marketing, exactly. Just sharing helpful information, and then a lot of people just come to you then, because they trust you and want to work with you.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 21:37
So your company, you said your wife is involved, as well as, of course, the CTO. Are there other employees that you have or is that about it?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 21:47
Yeah, that’s really it. We have one more partner, actually. His name is Alexander, he also serendipitously found me on the YouTube channel. He happened to have a company where he does like UX design, you know, user interface design. And he helped with designing the app. So that’s the four of us, the partners, and we’re in that space of a startup where, we’re doing everything like marketing, coaching, you know, everything ourselves. But I think we’re very close to being able to hire somebody. I think that the next step for us is to hire a second coach. And so that’ll be the next kind of like, litmus test of the model here. Because a lot of the clients I have are people that sort of know me from the YouTube channel. So, will it still work when we have a hired coach? I’m sure it will. You know, again, we have to tweak it, but that’s kind of the next step for us.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 22:46
Well, and obviously, you’re in a space that is going to continue to grow. I assume from the pandemic, you know, I don’t know anybody who’s been sleeping soundly since the pandemic. Maybe right place, right time. But did you see any changes from when you when you launched? I guess, it’s hard to say. Because you actually launched it during the pandemic? For the most part, right?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 23:08
Yeah, that’s right. I think, again, when you’re in the phase, you have some natural growth, and I don’t know if it’s accelerated with the pandemic or not. But, just generally speaking, I can tell that definitely the pandemic has affected people’s sleep, and there a lot of people having trouble sleeping nowadays. It’s like that combination of the stress, but also the isolation and inactivity. Insomnia, a lot of times comes from, you know, if you have a lot more time on your hands, more time to ponder your sleep and more things to focus on, it actually typically gets worse. So, yeah, it’s a lot more people have trouble sleeping now.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 23:44
Yeah, I mean, just from a personal standpoint, my son actually has a lot of issues with insomnia. And you know, it’s because his mind’s racing, and then it’s just a vicious cycle. And, I know we spend money on it. Everything from pillows, to cool blankets, to meditation apps, CBD. Not yet CBT, but yeah, it certainly is a big issue. But you didn’t rest on your laurels, you decided to create something called the Sleep Coach School. What is that about?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 24:21
Absolutely, it started off as kind of a separate project. But now I see there’s a lot of synergy between the two. So during this journey, I was on Twitter, and I connected with these two guys, Michael and Martin, who are both here in Oregon, and they’re also really into like helping people with insomnia. So we chatted here and there, and a common theme was that we were like, Oh my gosh, look at this article, it’s so unhelpful and this is going to cause so much stress. Also like, Oh, look at this person that calls himself a sleep coach, but all they say is not helpful at all. And then Martin, he was like, I wish there was some kind of like certification. So you could at least know that this person knows what they talk about, you know? And then I was like, there’s nothing like that, why don’t we start that? Like, you know, why don’t we start actually certifying coaches? And Michael, the other guy who was like, Yeah, sure. And Martin had a lot on his plate so he didn’t join. But me and this other guy, Michael, we did that. So it became an online school is called The Sleep Coach School. And it was really designed for someone, our initial thought was maybe someone who’s a counselor, or maybe doctor who wants to learn more about it. But I realized, after a while, that probably isn’t going to be the thing because doctors, counselors, we already have so much on our own plates. But so what we see now is that, it’s mostly somebody who actually had trouble sleeping, got past it, and now wants to help others. Those have become most of our students that we certify.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 25:53
I think it helped too because, I believe you have an MD or a DO behind your name. That actually accelerated the process and made it more, certifiable, so to speak. Or legitimate.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 26:06
Absolutely. And I think, to this day, still, being a doctor, it means something, a lot of people have confidence in doctors. And something I thought about, that may be helpful for anyone that tunes in here. You know, as a doctor, you do some things that are kind of pure medical. Like, you cannot call yourself, I don’t know, a knee coach and start doing knee operations. That’s not gonna happen, that’s not ethical, that’s not right. But then you have things like, in sleep, for example, we have insomnia. Which is really not medical, it’s just education and guidance. And, you had your guest from the other podcast, was named Kevin…
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 26:48
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 26:49
Cucarro, for example, a pain doctor who sees that education, about your relationship with pain, for example, is often what the problem is. And you can see that, as a doctor, you actually do a lot of coaching, too. So you could have, for example, a pediatrician who tells people how to potty train. They could become a coach for that. It’s a silly example, but what I want to say is that as a doctor, you have a lot of opportunity, because you actually do a lot of coaching. And you could take that into a whole different space, if you want to.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 27:24
What I like about this, I’ve coached doctors for years, and I’ve had a couple of sleep doctors who wanted to do entrepreneurial. Unfortunately, they got into some financial issues. I know, one particular doctor, he had a sleep center, that because of declining reimbursements, he had to close it. So, it’s gratifying to hear someone, a doctor who like figured it out. And yes, it is something that you can do. And it sounds like, not only are you generating revenue from it sounds like you’re having fun doing it too.
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 28:04
Absolutely. It’s super gratifying. I mean, literally, almost every week, somebody sends me messages saying, I’m sleeping again, after so many years of struggling and it’s like you changed my life. You know, which is, by the way, all of us really, went to medicine for that. Right. And you can do that in traditional medicine but, you can do that as a coach too. And it’s, it’s super gratifying. Absolutely.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 28:31
And then in addition too, talk about your reach now. I mean, obviously, you would have your patients in Eugene, but now, you know, I assume you’re you’ve got people from all around the United States and maybe beyond?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 28:43
100%. I had a client that came on, you know, on Bedtyme on the app, popped up as a client yesterday and she was mentioning like, Oh, it’s super hot here, I’m in Australia. And I was like, so cool. It was so cool. I love every client wherever they are, but just reaching people in Australia or you know, wherever it’s really cool. Yeah.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 29:04
Well, it sounds like you’re having a fun time. All the best of success to you. The name of the app is Bedtyme B-E-D-T-Y-M-E at bedtime.co. Dot C-O if you want to find out. And thesleepcoachschool.com, you also have a YouTube channel and a podcast also called The Sleep Coach School. It’s been great talking with you Daniel. I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot out of this. If you have any advice for you know, an aspiring physician, App Inventor or developer. What advice would you give them?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 29:43
Absolutely. I would say you know the classic one is just do it. Go ahead and do it. If you have that within you and feel like, I should be doing this, I wanted to do it. Do it. And the thing is that yes, it I spent a lot of money on initial product that didn’t really work that well, but I learned a ton from it. And if you’re willing go there, learn from things that may not be that comfortable in beginning, you can really get to a place where things turn around, you make back your investment and beyond. You help people and it can be fantastic. So just take the plunge, do it, and you’ll learn.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 30:21
Thank you so much. I so many lessons that we learned here. I love how you pivoted, you didn’t give up, you knew that you had something of value to the world. And I’m sure there were times when you wanted to stop, right? You wanted to say, enough’s enough. I know for you, or maybe your spouse, family and friends. But I think the world is a better place for it, guys. So Daniel, any last minute thoughts before we end the call today?
Dr. Daniel Erichsen 30:52
No, I just want to say that if anyone is just curious or wants to connect, have questions, then, you know, I’ll share my bio with with you, Mike, and very happy to talk with anyone that’s even remotely interested in anything I do.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 31:08
Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you, Dr. Daniel. Again, it’s The Sleep Coach School, Bedtyme is the app. If you’re considering an app, and to want to learn more about it, I think, Daniel made a very generous offer out there. And I really appreciate it learned a lot. As always guys, don’t stay stagnant. Don’t just think about the idea over and over that someday it’s gonna happen. It’s not gonna happen, just like Dan says, unless you actually just do it. So again, guys, it’s all about keep moving forward.