The tables are turned when I’m being interviewed by Quitting Evangelist Dr. Lynn Marie Morski at QuittingByDesign.com. I talk about my journey from burnt out physician to owning a 7 figure business and how I quickly learned why I was “unemployable”.
Lynn Marie will be one of my honored presenters at BootcampMD – a workshop for physicians who want to make more and work less.
To register go to:
TRANSCRIPT TO FOLLOW
Dr. Lynn Marie Morski
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
Mike and I actually met through one of the few Facebook groups that is out there for doctors on social media, I believe. Correct?
Yes. And he is going to be telling us at the end of the hour or however long it takes –
At the end of –
At the end of the 24 hours.
At the end of this segment about a conference coming up that he is hosting in January. And I’m going to be speaking at it –
And you’ll be speaking at it, yep.
I’m very, very excited because it’s for entrepreneur doctors and that’s a really cool niche so let’s get into this discussion.
All right. Mike, thank you for joining us today.
Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Absolutely. Mike just came all the way from Palm Springs to be here.
That’s right, I had to come.
We are very honored.
Now Mike is currently a practicing physician/entrepreneur here in San Diego and nobody comes out of med school as a physician … Well very few people come out as a physician-entrepreneur. That is generally something that develops. And as with most, since Mike has already told me his story, there are some quits along the way as we are not surprised. And he is willing to share those with us.
So if you could take us … By the way, Mike and I ended up, even though we met on a Facebook group, we went to the same residency program in Mayo Clinic, Arizona.
Right, right, right near Arizona.
There’s a kinship there.
I love it, I love it. So after you graduated from residency, take us to where you went first and then what happened there.
Okay, so like you said, family physician trained. Come from a family of doctors. My uncle is a thoracic surgeon. My dad’s a pediatrician, psychiatrist. Whole bunch of doctors in there. Makes for a crazy family reunion is what I like to say.
But anyway, I went from Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona. My wife is from San Diego so we wanted to get back and we ended up moving to Encinitas which is a city North County of San Diego. And I didn’t know any better, right? So I go from residency to going into the clinic and you know they said it gets easier when you go from residency to the clinic but that wasn’t necessarily the case. But I didn’t know any better, right?
So I was basically … did everything. So was hired as a family physician but I was also in charge of the urgent care. I was in charge of occupational medicine part. I was doing nursing home rounds. And basically what the powers to be that told me was, since you’re the new guy, you need to bring up your patients. You need to get more patients so we’ve got an extended hour urgent care so let’s have you there once a week at night. Okay, great. You need to get more geriatric patients. Let’s have you be a nursing home director. Let’s have you become a nursing home director for three nursing homes.
So not with increased pay by the way. This is all just taking all of these different things. And basically, I didn’t know any better. And I was just busy working and I thought I had it made, right? So I’ve got the … My family here. We bought a house in beautiful San Diego County. Everything is going right.
But then I realized that what I envisioned as a doctor and what I was actually doing, there was incongruencies there. And I remember in … Let’s say I’m a little bit older than you, but I was on call in 1999 so if you know about what happened on January 1st, 2000, everybody was concerned about Y2K. What’s gonna happen? Are the computers gonna go down? What’s gonna happen with all the medical records? And of course they put the new guy, they put him on call that night in the hospital. Okay. And long story short is, when I would be on call I’d get stuck on New Year’s Eve call, Christmas call, Thanksgiving call. That’s just my luck, right?
So I ended up meeting another doctor who we kind of shared call with. He’s an older doctor. Let’s just call him Doctor Jones. And he was a family practitioner. He had a solo practice kind of out in the boonies of San Diego but we kind of shared call. And I got to know him through just our meetings going to pharmaceutical dinners or such. And this guy was in his 50’s but he looked like he was in his 70’s. He wasn’t the best of health. And we met … We were hanging out at the ER at 4 o’clock in the morning on a Christmas morning here and I knew I was on there because they told me to be on call. But I asked him, ‘Why are you on call?” And he basically said that he gets better pay if he comes on Christmas day, if he takes holiday call and so he volunteered to do this. And I go, “Well don’t you want to be with your …” ’cause I knew he had a bit of a family he said. In no uncertain terms after I got to know him, for a while he says, “I have to work. The reason why I have to work, I’ve got a big family, I get paid to work more.”
And Lynn, he looked older than most of my patients. He looked like he needed to be admitted to the hospital. And I kind of envisioned myself … He passed away a few years ago but I said, “Is this where I want to be 20, 30, 40 years from now? Having to be on Christmas morning because maybe I get a couple of extra hundred bucks more? Or I have to work because I didn’t plan or didn’t do what I was supposed to do in terms of looking at additional streams of income or whatever, investing, et cetera.
I didn’t like that. And I didn’t … It wasn’t what I envisioned where I wanted to be. So and then there was probably my first big ideas of … We were talking earlier about the symptoms of quitting. That was like looking in the mirror, looking in the future, seeing where I was and I didn’t like what I was seeing. But you know I was still going on, taking call, and everything like that.
And then what would happen to me was a personal event. I have two children who are adults now but at the time I had my second son was 4 or 5-years-old. Long story short he was diagnosed with autism. And back then we didn’t know what we know now. We didn’t know of all the signs and it was still kind of new to us but it was really a shock to the system for myself and for my wife. And I wanted to be there for my son of course and I wanted to go to all of his visits, his rehab, et cetera. I mentioned earlier I was the son of a doctor. My dad was always there for me and I said, “You know, I want to be there for my kids.”
And long story short, I approached my non-physician CEO if I could take, go half-time. I wasn’t even talking about quitting all together. That wasn’t even … I wouldn’t even come into my consciousness that I wanted to do this. I just wanted to go half-time. And he probably smirked or I don’t know what I envisioned but he says, “Mike, you’ve got a busy practice. If I have to give you half-time I have to give everybody, right?” You’ve probably heard similar stories. And so I said, I didn’t tell him that, but I made steps to actually quit to do that. And it was basically, it was a personal decision. It was, they obviously aren’t supporting me and I’ve done everything they’ve asked of me to do for them. And that actually led to actually leading to quitting.
I love that. Because you did the thing that I suggest so many doctors should start with if there’s some part of their practice that isn’t working which is ask the question, can I change something about my practice? Maybe it’s the schedule, maybe it’s the type of patients you’re seeing or the types of procedures you’re doing. So you made the ask, right? And then always the second part of that is, if they don’t respond to your ask in a positive way or try to make some kind of deal … Maybe you could say, “Okay, let’s try three-quarters time?” You know? If they just refuse to budge then, like you said, they don’t have your greatest good at mind. They’re looking to get their bottom line. They’re looking from a fear perspective. If we give this to you we’re gonna give this to everybody. Well not everybody’s asking for it. They might want to make full-time pay and you at this point have a reason, you’re willing to go to half-time. But if they see it from that bottom line instead of with you as a person coming to them with a need, then you did the absolutely right thing that you should do at that point which is find a way out.
Because you have to be in a … You could like your career as much as you want but if you’re in a company culture that doesn’t support you, could still end up like that guy who looks 20 years old than he does and is still … I think a lot of people have a misconception about medicine, that we’re just going to make a lot of money and family docs are not making a lot of money. And sometimes I think people get to the realization all too late when they get … Like they get there and they’re like, why are you having to work Christmas Eve? Oh, you still need to work extra this many years into your career? Wow.
So you start planting the seeds for your quit at that point, right?
What kind of preparations did you make? What financial preparations and then plans for what you’re going to move to next? What went on at that point.
Well, yeah. So to get, going back … You know this is quite a while ago. I’ve always been entrepreneurial. We were in Phoenix at Mayo Clinic and I think it’s the second year we get to actually moonlight and such.
My wife got pregnant as I was an intern at Mayo and I was too young or I couldn’t do moonlighting. I couldn’t work at urgent care or all the other places but I’ve always been entrepreneurial and in terms of internet, I actually helped create the form of … Doctor Edwards, if you remember, asked me to work on a website for the Mayo clinic residency program. And I was kind of fooling around with it a little bit and this is … I learned of HTML which is the language of the web and this is 1996, ’97. There’s basically nothing out there, right?
But I started to create a website for the residency and then I was starting to get questions from other doctors or premeds or wannabe doctors about how to get into the residency. Mayo Clinic was my first choice. So I was giving them advice and what ended up happening was I started a little side business at the time. They didn’t even call it side-gig, they call it side-gig now. But I started a page where … I was getting all of these questions about residency. Well I said, “Well, why don’t I just …” I don’t have time. I’m an intern. I don’t have time to answer all these questions. I said, “What I’ll do is I’ll type up all of the frequently asked questions about how to get into the residency of your choice and I’ll sell it.” I went to Kinko’s and I’ll sell it for $15 and if you wanted it you can mail me … There was no PayPal back then. So you gotta mail me a cheque which I learned, don’t put your home address because you’re sending this out onto the web.
And what I ended up happening is I built a little business around it. My wife, like I said, she was pregnant at the time but she … We were getting a lot of questions about how can I … Help me with my CV or my personal statement. She said, ‘Well I can do that. I’m a librarian. I can do this part.” And we started our little service business. I didn’t say I got rich on it but it helped us when we were struggling in terms of extra income that was coming out. It helped us buy a truck and we started a little business. It last for about a few years.
Long story short, I’ve always been entrepreneurial and then one of the things I was doing during my full-time practice was I creating little what they called information products, a little eBooks. So I created some little eBooks. One was on how to save money on your prescription bill. And I created all these little eBooks that, again, and we’re talking 2003, 2004. There was no Facebook. There was basically Google. And I created these books and it created all these books and websites and then actually I ended up … I was actually making more than I was as a doctor at the time. It really it snowballed.
And I had mentors to help me to get to where I wanted to be which is important. You always want to invest in anything that you do. But that eventually led to me actually leaving. So I had to actually … In terms of actually preparation, I had the little internet side business at the time that really kind of took off that allowed me the courage to actually quit.
One thing I did want to mention, I think this might be unique is, when I actually told him that I wanted to quit, it was not give a two week notice and leave. It was, “Let’s get back on this.”
Firstly, they didn’t think I was serious that I wanted to quit. And then it was, “Well we have to find your replacement ’cause you have all these patients …” There were some guilt trips that they put on me. But I was also a shareholder in my practice meaning I had invested money and if I wanted to quit, I would have to pay that money back somehow. So it wasn’t a two week notice. It was, “I have to pay to quit on there.” And then I was nice about it. I could have stayed on much shorter than I was. I stayed on about six months but I had an obligation to my patients. I wanted to make sure that they were being taken care of or whatever doctor they had to replace me. So it was about six months before I actually did leave, yeah.
And when you did leave, you went for a period of time without doing something clinical, correct?
Well, that’s another side of my story ’cause being married is … My wife was kind of our bread earner through internship. She was a librarian at Grand Canyon University and she kind of basically helped me get through. Not in terms of finances, we had medical school loans and on, on and such. But she helped with bringing the bacon for that. So her … She was not as receptive of me leaving medicine to start up my little ebook internet business kind of thing. It didn’t play well.
At least I told her. I didn’t even tell my mom I was … I didn’t even tell my mom until she goes, “Everything right, Michael?” But she said, “Well before you leave, maybe you can do something part-time.” And I did and I found an Indian Health service job, paid for some of my public health forgiveness in terms of my loans. I did it for like twice a week. And then after about a year then I eventually left.
Gotcha. So –
Clinically, for a while.
Yeah, so there was a petering out period.
Yeah, it was more for my wife.
Fair enough, I like this. Full disclosure.
Full disclosure. I’m always transparent right so …
I love it. I appreciate that. So a lot of docs I think have this fear of what is my identity if I leave clinical medicine? If I stop practicing medicine. And not that you ever lose the degree. I mean even if you were grossly involved in malpractice you still somehow have the degree. You’re still a doctor at the end of the day but I feel as though a lot of people wrap their identity a little bit in the caring for patients portion.
And other people of us, that’s not so much where we get our satisfaction and for some of us it’s not at all for us. And I’ve had this discussion recently with someone who’s gonna be on the podcast soon, her name’s Michelle and she’s like, “I realize clinical medicine was not for me at all.” And so … You know there are people that go into pathology and radiology but you had to face this period where you decided, okay, I’m not gonna do clinical medicine anymore. Did you have any of those identity concerns or were you just as fond of doing tech things as you were of medicine so it wasn’t an issue?
You always have something. Whether it be kind of scorn or perceived scorn from your colleagues. I was joking about my mom but that was actually a big deal with my mom. My dad’s always been … He’s a doctor but he’s always been entrepreneurial or he tries to be entrepreneurial so he was … He was okay with it.
But I also felt bad because I had patients over the five years I was there. I do think now it’s a lot easier to get away from that. I mean back then there was no Facebook groups, support groups. I mean there was a lot of support for doctors leaving the bedside or going away for a few years. I didn’t have anything really of that and also in terms, just maybe where I grew up, I was kind of the Marcus Welby, if anybody is my age who remembers that. The typical MD where the family doctor, where their patients bring or … You know or what I thought in medical school, this is how it would be where people would bring bread and those kinds of things and you would do house calls. Or just basically that you would be in a job that you would stay on for 20, 30, 40 years and now in the younger generation, my perception is it’s okay to go from job to job and in your search for fulfillment in whatever that is.
Yeah, absolutely. That is a big difference. Luckily for us. But you brought up a phrase that I want to go back to which is perceived scorn.
So good because that describes most scorn, right? Like how often does somebody actually scorn you to your face. It’s mostly just we assume other people are going to scorn our decision. Some will be bold about it. But did you have any actual in person backlash or was it mostly the thought, maybe the mindset of, “Oh my gosh, people are going to be thinking about my quit negatively.”
No, I mean I heard comments like, “Oh Michael, what’s he doing? What is he doing?” And then the, “Oh, he’ll be all right. He’s all right.”
But I got to the point where … You know when you … I learned early on that I’m unemployable. Not that I don’t have skills, I don’t do well with bosses for whatever that is. And it just wasn’t for me and I didn’t feel that I was … What we were saying that they didn’t have their best interests of me at heart. And I got to the point and I work with doctors who go through this, who go through … We talk about these issues is they’re not thinking about you, they’re thinking about themselves. And there was some scorn but I actually found out there was actually more envy. There was more envy as … He was able to do it. Maybe there was some who just wanted me to fall flat on my feet and I’m sure there’s a little bit of that where there’s some envy, jealousy kind of going on in there.
But I’m gonna keep it clean ’cause I don’t know your … I just said screw it. I’m just gonna … This is what I want to do. This is for my family. I want to be there for my kid. And if they’re not willing to help me out, I’m just gonna quit.
Oh, I love that very much. You’re absolutely right. They’re projecting or they’re just jealous and it’s easier to come instead of saying, “Gosh, I don’t have the courage to do what he’s doing” just to scorn at it.” And so anytime you have perceived scorn or you have actual scorn and you hear actual comments, stop and think in your head, these are probably the reasons. Like I can’t think of a really good reason why somebody would scorn you that wasn’t one of the following. Like they don’t have the same risk aversion to you or they’re jealous of doing it. There’s … I can’t see a good reason ’cause I think most people, down deep, are probably pretty … They’re envious that you have the courage to do this thing. I mean leaving clinical medicine is no small deal. And so it’s probably a lot of people find what you’re doing admirable if you really get down to it but it’s kind of our egos that fight with that and think, “Oh gosh, I so wish I could do that but I’m just gonna be angry at him about his ability.”
And so I’m glad that that never stopped you. That’s incredible. So how have things been since you made the transition?
Well since I made the transition I’m still unemployable.
I love that.
I’ve basically … eventually that little ebook business turned into another business that I created, a software that actually did multi millions, it’s made seven million dollars in sales. I was a co-founder of it that I eventually sold.
The thing about, in medicine, and again it’s in different states but this is a question that … I know you guys have doctors in the audience is, depending on when you quit, you need to know the regulations in your state. And I was … One of the things that I love to do is I love talking with doctors and I had a few students who were doctors who I helped to consult them into entrepreneurial coaching that I did. And one of my students was saying, “Mike, I’m gonna have to hold off on the coaching for right now. I might have to go back into medicine.” I says, “Well what’s going on?” And she said that, “I got a letter from the state saying they noticed that I’ve not been in practice and unless I start seeing patients, I would have to go to some type of medical retraining for a year which costs about $50,000 out of my own pocket unless I see patients.”
So you know how that was like, “Oh my goodness, but what about myself.” I’d been out for a few years besides some of my hypochondriac entrepreneur friends, I hadn’t really been practicing medicine. And so I said, “Well I’ll do some locum tenens” and then I did like 30 minutes. I went up to some place in the high desert, up in the Upper Riverside County where there’s like no physicians within this amount of … It’s like in the country there’s the least amount of physicians per capita on there. And about 30 minutes I realize that I’m unemployable again and I said, “You know, I’ve got some business skills why don’t I … If I’m gonna have to go back into medicine, why don’t I start my own practice?”
So I started a little practice up in North County. It was a hormone replacement integrative medicine because those are things that I was most interested in. Eventually ended up going into weight loss and we’ve now had a series of clinics in Southern California. I still practice medicine. I work about two days out of the week, about 10 to 12 hours and the rest is going after ventures like this. I built some passive income streams that have helped me get to where I want to be but if it wasn’t for that first courage of actually quitting, I would probably still be that Doctor Jones. Was heading into that direction there.
I’m not saying everything is flowers and roses and all of that but I’m at a better place than I was almost 20 years ago, so …
I love that. I love how you went and you found some niche in medicine that you did enjoy. That’s so crucial for all the docs out there who are thinking, I can’t handle clinical medicine anymore. There’s a wide variety.
The first doctor I had on here was Doctor Amy Killen. She was ER doc running herself ragged and then she ends up going into antiaging medicine. Loves it.
And over and over I hear these stories of find a niche. There are lots of niche clinics. The men’s health clinic, the women’s health clinic, the hormone replacement, the Med Spa. All kinds of things you can do.
I do compensation of pension physicals. So does Mike. We found that out on our phone call. And it’s a very small corner of the world of medicine, but it works for us.
It does and maybe we shouldn’t say it at Facebook live, I do it ’cause I like vets but I don’t need to go through that continuative care for those patients and there’s somebody else that are handling. Basically, either if you don’t know what that is, it’s basically, we’re in San Diego. It’s a big Military town. A lot of veterans here. Got ailments that they’ve either acquired in active duty or something related to active duty. And then depending on what type of injuries they have, they are afforded some type of compensation and our job is to determine if it’s accurate or not.
But I enjoy it but it is … It also helps for you to explore other avenues for like yourself to do the things that bring you joy into your own life as well.
Yeah, it doesn’t … That’s a huge part of my story and why I love to pass on what I’ve learned because I was miserable in sports medicine and I thought, okay, what parts of it can I take and find. And I did what you did in a manner of speaking is I did moonlighting just enough to pay the bills until I found this job.
And moonlighting, for those who don’t know. I’m gonna cover a few terms but maybe we didn’t cover moonlighting is when you work a second job and locum tenens is when doctors can fly around the country and if you fill in for a doc who’s going on vacation here or sub for somebody going on sabbatical there. That’s the thing, there are so many opportunities in medicine. So do not feel trapped if you have this medical degree and you don’t want to do the traditional clinical medicine. There are many other options out there.
But for me, I just found my job on Twitter and I was looking at everything.
Yeah. I did. Because I got really desperate when I realized, man I cannot. I did the same thing you did. I thought after a fellowship, okay I’m gonna try part-time sports medicine. After three days I had the same kind of, “Oh, not employable as a regular doctor thing.” And luckily they said, we don’t have enough patients to keep you. So I was like phew, almost … Dodged that bullet. And then I thought, “Okay, now we’ve got to get serious and only take the jobs I really want. I don’t want to be doing sports medicine. Stop saying, okay I’ll do it half-time. No.
So then I went and I thought okay I’ll do, I’ll work with electronic medical records ’cause I like tech more than I like patient care and continuity like you said and then I found this job that said just use these exams. And I found it on Twitter.
And so when people are like, “I’m sure not what to do with my medical degree.” I’m like, “If I can find a job on Twitter in 2010, 2009, when Twitter wasn’t even quite as big, you can find jobs out there. Just … There’s a million Facebook groups and Kevin, MD who’s the home for all non-clinical doctors.
So that leads us to today where you are now putting on this conference. Tell us a little bit about the conference.
So we’re talking about passions. One of my big passions is actually connecting with doctors like yourself. Doctors who maybe don’t fit into that peg, right? That round hole and the square peg. Or just willing to do these kinds of things.
Back in 2003, 2004, there was no support. If there was I didn’t see it. I think the only thing I saw like the AMA puts out some book called, “Leaving The Bedside” that cost like 80 bucks that you can buy on there. That’s about it. But there was no support group or Facebook group or anything like that.
And I didn’t … I had been consulting with entrepreneurs in general and to be honest, I didn’t even want to talk to doctors. One is, I still felt that perceived scorn from my colleagues. You know tell a surgeon what to do, forget it. But those same doctors actually came to me and said, “Hey, can you show me how you did this little internet business thing on the side?” And then I said, “Well, I’d like to work with doctors.”
And then I got into meeting other doctors, connected online. I talked about … and I met Pam Wible last year if you don’t know but in the physician community she’s a big advocate for prevention of physician suicide which unfortunately is one of our biggest issues in medicine these days. And it’s because they feel so trapped. And I don’t know exactly why that is. I mean I’ve got some theories. I think I’ve mentioned to you in the call that we’re risk adverse as doctors. We’d rather have a double-blinded placebo study before we quit, before we actually go do it. And even then, we’re gonna ask a question anonymously on some Facebook group to decide our fate.
But I see the same issues that I had with doctors that I had myself. And whether it’s inspiration through me or yourself, maybe there’s a way that we can actually go and give more value because I think … I was listening to one of your podcasts is if someone is working as employee and they’re depressed. They’re not gonna be as much value to whoever they’re serving and it’s not just serving patients. And if I can help a thousand doctors be … Add more value to them, like what they do, how much impact is it gonna have on all the patients that they may or may not have or just in general do?
I feel like I impacted more doctors at my own practice, I’ve got lots of different practices but I’ve been able to add more value. It’s not really about the money. It’s really adding more value to them and that’s why I decided to put on this event that’s called BootcampMD. It’s happening in San Diego in January. Speakers like yourself, these really weird physicians that I got who felt that there’s other ways that you can add more value, add more things to other people’s lives and not necessarily … Just be open that there’s so many options that are out there right now for physicians. We kind of joke about what are the different options but many of the majority of don’t even know about this. They just say, once you go out of residency you work at some place like Kaiser or somewhere, isn’t anything against Kaiser. But work at some place for 30 years and at the end of the 30 years hopefully you got some 401K thing that you can do.
But that wasn’t life for me. I know that wasn’t the life for you. And maybe there’s a way, if we can introduce you to what other doctors are doing. We’ve got a doctor who works a day a week and has built passive income streams through real estate and investments. We’ve got another doctor who doesn’t practice at all and started her own coaching company and she’s being fulfilled through that. A doctor like yourself who has a whole brand now involved in quitting. I never even thought this was possible. That you could do that. You can do that.
And again, I think right now we’re in the greatest time. We’ve got the internet. We’re going Live and take it from somebody who is getting … If you wanted to pay me you had to write cheques in the mail to my home address. There is so much opportunity out there to reach these people. I’ve been blessed to … In my company I was able to speak around the world and going to all these different places that they found me just because I had a website and somehow I connected with them.
And now, you’ve got Facebook Live, you’ve got webinars. You’ve got so many ways to connect, Messenger, all that kind of stuff. It’s all about being authentic too and it’s … If you can’t get there Live you can get there through the internet and there really wasn’t a conference that I saw where physicians could get together, talk about what’s going on. Some of them have successful businesses, some of them want to have a … wantrepreneur. Anybody is welcome.
And that’s why I’m doing the event. Just to connect and maybe that one nugget that they get out of it, maybe it’ll spark something that could lead to different conversations and connect that way. So, that’s why we do it.
Great. Yeah. When and where and where can they find it?
So it’s happening on January 26th, 27th and 2019 as we’re taping this in December. It’s in San Diego in the Little Italy District. There’s a cool little hotel called the Porta Vista Hotel. I’ve had events in the past. It’s really close if you’re flying in from the airport, they even do an airport shuttle there. And it’s happening in San Diego so the website to go to is https://www.bootcampmd.com/go and we can put a link I guess –
We will put many links, yes.
… on there. And we’d … Go in there and check the stuff. Any questions you can contact us. Information there on the form and let us know that Lynn Marie sent you and we’ll take care of them.
Ah, very, very cool. I look forward to meeting everyone who ends up coming there and speaking with all the doctor entrepreneurs and I am very grateful that you came on our show today. I love your story. We were talking about does … Every quitee has a little bit unique angle. He’s like, “I might be the first person who paid to quit.” I’m like, “You may be.”
I paid a lot to quit.
55 episodes and you might be the … Actually I recorded more like 60 and for sure I think that’s probably the first one. But I love your unique angle and I always love having doctors on to talk about the … Just the very specific struggles of quitting medicine. There’s a lot that goes into it and I appreciate you sharing your story.
Thanks for having me.
Any time. All right, for everybody else out there, until next time, happy quitting.