It’s no secret physician private prqctice ownership is at an all-time low. It takes out of the box thinking to survive and thrive in today’s medical climate, and that’s why it was imperative to have my next guest onto the podcast. Andy Greider is an innovative healthcare entrepreneur whose company, Healthcare Evolution Group, has successfully created multiple turnkey solutions that helps doctors meet Medicare compliance, boost patient engagement, and increase revenue.
After listening to this episode you will discover new income streams most can add to their own practice, while learning alternative revenue sources behind traditional healthcare services. Don’t miss this one!
Learn More About Healthcare Evolution Group (Affiliate link):
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: [00:00:00] According to the American Medical Association, in the 1980s, three out of four physicians owned their own practice, 76%. Last year in 2022, it’s down to 44%. So it’s probably not surprising to you that most medical practice owners are not physicians. The main reason for this physician owner exodus, declining reimbursements, leading to more financial instability.
Well, my next guest is here to help change all that. He’s a healthcare entrepreneur who helps providers provide turnkey solutions to help increase patient engagement and add additional revenue to their practice. During these times, you’re going to need some out of the box thinking, and he certainly brings the goods. My interview with Andy Greider on this episode of BootstrapMD.
Welcome to BootstrapMD, the physician entrepreneurs podcast, your source to help you, the entrepreneurial doctor live life on your own [00:01:00] terms, get new ideas and inspiration to help you find more balance in your professional life. If you’re ready to get the knowledge without all the hype, you’ve come to the right place. It’s the BootstrapMD podcast, and now your host, Dr. Mike Woo-Ming.
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Hey guys, this is Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Welcome to another edition of BootstrapMD. This is the podcast for healthcare and physician entrepreneurs. We always love to have guests who are helping other doctors, whether it be in their career, helping them with their practice, maybe helping them with their productivity, even their life.
And I think we found another gem. This gentleman is a problem solving consultant and entrepreneur who enjoys connecting dots to create win solutions for clients. He’s currently working as a managing partner for healthcare evolution group, where he and his partners have created multiple turnkey solutions. Helping doctors meet Medicare compliance, increasing patient engagement, increasing revenue, improve RAF and add other new income streams among other things that we’re going to be covering on today’s podcast.
And he’s always loves to learn new [00:03:00] things. He likes to cook. I’m a horrible cook. I probably skipped that. I can microwave. Hike, read, just being in nature and traveling with his wife and family. Want to welcome to the program, Andy Greider. Andy, how are you doing, my friend?
Andy Greider: I am fantastic, Mike. Thanks for having me. This is a real pleasure. I’m just super thrilled to be here.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: I’m here. So just before the program, we, were connected with a mutual friend, Justin Green. And we were talking about that he has the pulse of like networking and it just seems to know a lot of folks. He says, I need you to meet Andy. He, I think you need, you guys need to connect you guys to line in common. And so that’s what started the impetus for this podcast episode today.
But I want to talk about your entrepreneur beginnings. We were just before the call, we were talking about possibly going to the same marketing events back in [00:04:00] the day. We’ve got mutual friends. How did you get involved into entrepreneurship?
Andy Greider: Ah, wow. Well, I can thank some big corporations for that. I’ll try to leave out names to protect the guilty, but AT& T and some other folks that caused me to decide that corporate really wasn’t my gig and get into the entrepreneurial world all the way back in the early to mid nineties.
I helped start a .com. I helped do a couple other things along the way, fell into consulting and problem solving because that’s the way my brain works. But I’ve done a lot of different things. Mike, I’ve got a really wide swath of background. I made jewelry for a few years. I am a big sound fanatic. I actually installed home theaters for a couple of years. Some of those were side jobs. Some of those were main jobs.
Really my heart has always been in helping other people. And the easiest way I’ve found to do that is to solve problems that people are having. And the more that you can do that in ways that help everyone, and healthcare is a beautiful place to do [00:05:00] that in, because there’s, you have staff, you have doctors, you have patients, you have the system itself that needs fixed.
So there’s all sorts of different challenges and possibilities there. So it really, that’s what kind of got me all the way up to healthcare. But I’ve worked in finance. I’ve worked in insurance. I’ve worked in tech. I’ve worked in pharmaceutical. All over the place, life sciences, all, and it’s been fun, but it’s always, there’s always a new challenge out there. There’s always a problem that needs solved.
As a doctor, I wasn’t used to asking for help, especially when it came to subjects outside of medicine. But then, I found physiciancoaches.com. In an instant, I found hundreds of experts to help me in all aspects of life. On areas I was afraid to ask. Dealing with burnout, starting a side gig, money management, even help with my marriage.
And the best part? Nearly all experts are physicians themselves. After reading their profile in [00:06:00] a quick chat, I knew I found the right mentor for me. At physiciancoaches.com help from professional colleagues is just a click away
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: When I always love asking this question about entrepreneurs. You said you’re in the corporate world. I think we caught the company you work with, but we can edit it later if you’d like. But did you have like family members who were entrepreneurs? Did you have that crazy uncle doing multi level marketing?
Andy Greider: No, actually, no, I really didn’t. My parents, my dad was a school teacher and my mom worked in the, actually I’ve worked in the healthcare arena doing, teaching residents how to alleviate their medical debt. I did have exposure to healthcare early on, but not really entrepreneurship. And so I just, again, my heart’s always been there.
I own my own jewelry company. I made jewelry for a couple of years when I was younger and that kind of that really lit the [00:07:00] bug. And actually, I guess it really harkens all the way back to high school. I had a company VCRs back when you had to do the dial in on the because parents would come in by this VCR and they’d have no idea how to program it.
And I had a couple of friends that I take care of and they’d go out and help me install and I’d sell the VCRs and then go install them and it was fun. It was an opening kind of foray into business. And then beyond that, we, I followed that niche in college. I tried to go corporate for a little while and it just didn’t work for me. The entrepreneur bugs bit me since I was about 22, which is a good 30 plus years ago now.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Now Andy, you did just date ourselves because there’s a whole audience that has no idea what VCR means. Just for my audience, because I think I’m about the same age as you or getting close to it or older, perhaps, VCR stands for Video Cassette Recorders.
For your audience who are listening, before that they had TiVo or automatically recording [00:08:00] programs. We would have these cassettes that could be Betamax or VHS. And then if you wanted to record your show, let’s say Trees company. Okay. Friends or whatever you would go in and you would set your clock to record.
And I think probably about 15 percent of the population actually knew how to record on time, and I guess you’re 1 of that 15 percent that figured out how to do it.
Andy Greider: It was a necessity thing. I actually worked in a video store, running videos and the 1 day. Can you figure out how to do these? And I said, sure.
And I figured it out and he said, can you teach other people? And I said, sure. And he said, let’s figure out how we make that into a profit center. He was a former construction worker who was an entrepreneur. So that was probably my entrepreneurial influence. Now that I think about it, Mike, I don’t know. I’ve ever really thought back that far to that whole Genesis, but there you go.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: And then, if you would have been able to actually stop the [00:09:00] 12 o’clock because my dad always had that. You never figured out how to stop the 12 o’clock.
Andy Greider: Oh, Lord. Yes. Yes. Indeed. There were all sorts of challenges, but we were usually able to overcome them. Very few people knew how to do it. So anyway, yes, go ahead. Please.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Okay. Let’s with that segue, let’s talk about health care. What got you involved in health care? That’s the big behemoth, right? Everybody says there’s a lot of money to it, but there’s a lot of problems to it as well.
Andy Greider: Well, and I think actually the last part of what you just said, Mike, is what got us involved is there’s a lot of things that need to be solved.
We came across an offering that we really liked through a who’s a gentleman who’s now our third business partner. My partner, Buzz McComber and I had healthcare evolution group running for a while. We brought Jorge Gonzalez in with us along the way, but what we were shown was a program that helped doctors.
With their compliance issues with their patient engagement side of things and with new revenue, and it [00:10:00] kept them away from dealing with the macro law that’s out there. 9 percent penalties are never a good thing when you’re running a 20 percent margin. And so the 1st thing I looked at as well this is a huge risk if you don’t actually take care of it.
Now, 2nd part was, oh, wow, we can engage the patients. And help avoid emergent care situations and help the doctors see the people they need to see in the timely fashion that they need to see them while we maintain a baseline on all the people that are doing well enough, but might have something emerging.
And then the last part is we can create brand new revenue. We’re not robbing Peter to pay Paul. A lot of the programs that I’ve always seen in healthcare borrow from some other column in order to create quote unquote new profit. Ours is actually brand new profit. And then I got further into it and I love this because it looks and feels like the practice. There’s no real integration issue. There’s no tech integration issues. There’s no HIPAA risk. There’s not even an issue with the EHR. We basically can log directly in and the doctors are pulling up [00:11:00] their soap notes right in front of them. Boom. Boom. It’s really easy to put into a practice and it really helps the practice.
Once that kind of came in play, we started talking with a lot of groups. We started recruiting a team of former healthcare executives. Folks that had been retired and who wanted to get out of the house and go do something fun and visit their old friends. And or the people that took their place when they left.
And we started running this out and seeing what would happen. And that was maybe a year ish ago. And in the last 9 months, we’ve added 3 other services into the stack. So we call it CPR compliance, patient engagement revenue. We partner with a company that is a tremendous branding partner and execution partner on that part.
And again, like I said, what they do is remarkable and what it helps anybody that takes Medicare, whether it’s the patient, the staff, or the doctor, it’s a huge help to them. So and again, when that’s what we’re looking for the next parts I can [00:12:00] get into, but I’ll pause.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: So you talked about that you have 4 major services with healthcare evolution group. I’m just curious working with doctors. Have you seen like a common theme with the doctor owner? Are you seeing the same problems again and again? Is it, is there something that you can point to that maybe will help the practice owners who are listening to this program? Just be aware of, or just be aware of that these problems can occur.
Andy Greider: That’s a really good question, mike. I think the biggest problem they’re facing is a bit of it’s a combination of apathy over laws that have been passed, but not enacted. And that’s macro for you. I was passed in 2015. They only enacted it at the beginning of this year. So they’ve been being warned and warned and it’s a big, it’s a little boy that cried wolf and the government’s a little boy.
And so they keep saying, oh, we’re going to do this. We’re going to do this. And now they actually are. I think there’s [00:13:00] a certain amount of skepticism is the other word I would say. What we do is we run a report for them. A lot of times I see skepticism. I see a lot of folks saying our SEO or MSO or whomever takes care of this for us. And in real and realistic terms, they usually don’t. They don’t do what they need to do all of it anyway, and certainly not at the level at which we’re able to perform for them. So we run a free report for them, so there’s no upfront cost to any of what we do either.
And we run this free report that shows them where they stand. I’d say finding out where you stand with cMS and how CMS is seeing your practice is probably the biggest thing that most people need right out of the gate. They don’t know they need it until we run the report for them. Reports as simple as getting a number from them and saying, okay, let’s run and see what CMS is seeing.
We have a ability to do that at a level that is pretty impressive. And the report that comes back shows them on those 46 touch points for Medicare and the macro law. Where are they [00:14:00] compliant? Where are they not? What do they need to do to get compliant? And then we show them how we can help. I think a lot of times doctors also, let’s just be honest.
I think most doctors are like most people. They’re human beings. They don’t like to ask for help. They don’t want to say I need help. I was going to say possibly more. But in this case, what the help looks like is very congruent to their practice and very much congruent to what they want to do and how they want to practice.
So we’re a helping hand that comes in the background, looks and feels like them and can perform a lot of these touch points. The typical Medicare patient is seen somewhere between 2 and 4 times a year, right? There’s no way you can do 28 services that are required in those 2 to 4. If it’s 2, especially even in 4, there’s just no way.
And then if you’re not compliant with 28 out of the 46, you’re going to end up with your fines and your penalties. So it breaks down that simply. So a lot of times it’s just [00:15:00] asking them, are you aware of what you’re up against? And they might think they are. And then we can show them that, Hey, here’s what, this is really what’s happening behind the scenes.
This is what they’re going to send you. Probably shortly is this letter that says, hey, you need to actually put together an action compliance plan. Once they do that, then you’re on the clock. The good part is we can get to you before that before you get the letter and get you compliant and not ever have to get the letter.
And again, I think there’s a lot of people that judge this is something that, oh, that’s not going to happen to me. That’s only going to be the big systems and they’re right, they’re going to start with the big systems. Don’t get me wrong, but we’ve gotten plenty of people that have come back to us in the last 6 months that have said, hey, I got my letter.
I should have listened before. So that’s the stuff. I really want to avoid Mike because it’s a panic moment. It’s a really intense. Oh, no. Oh, my gosh. This could be a really devastating piece moment.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: I guess it’s just human nature just as we do with patients. They don’t want to get their lab tests because they’re afraid of they’re [00:16:00] going to find out something. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet. Just get it done before you find out that it’s too late.
Andy Greider: And if I may Mike to that example, and it’s a good 1, except the 1 part is, if I’m getting lab results back, I don’t know what I’m getting back and I don’t know what we can do about it. Here, no matter what you get back, we actually know what we can do about it. So there’s, there’s a lot less of a fear factor. If you look at it logically.
Now, again, logic and fear don’t always go together. So it’s but realistically, I think you’re right. I think a lot of people are a little scared to pull back the curtain and see what’s back there. They’re a little worried that it’s not going to be pretty. And in a lot of cases, they’re actually right. But we, again, we have an ability to make that part pretty, which is nice. And then, like I said, we have other things we can bring in. And I should say we concentrate on the primary folks with the primary relationship with the Medicare patient, so it’s primary care. It’s internal medicine. It’s geriatrics and [00:17:00] it’s family medicine largely that we work with.
And then we work with everybody from the small clinics all the way up to the largest systems in the country health care system wise. So it’s a fun. It’s a really fun space to be playing in and there’s about 88 percent of positions that are still not compliant. So it’s a pretty wide open field too.
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Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Wow. So let’s talk about some of the other services. Wound care is one of the services that you can that you offer.
Andy Greider: Yeah, it’s a field that has always had a bad rap because traditionally a doctor is going to refer that out to some external source because wet wraps and Manuka honey and things like that are not something they’d usually want to play around with.
It’s usually a very long healing time. It’s got a high recurrence rate. It’s got a fairly high infection rate. It also leads to a lot of problems for the patients that the patients turn around and blame the doctor. And that’s not a that’s not a good situation for any of them. So what we have done is we’ve built a turnkey solution that is a really powerful deal with a partner of ours.
Again, that is a full software package that goes through all the ordering goes through all the tracking goes through all the patient [00:19:00] pieces, all the picture taking all the we can even do all the billing for them on the claims. Mike, are you still there?
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah.
Andy Greider: Okay. I though I lost you. The best part about it is there’s no out of pocket cost because we can do it at nine at 60 day net billing. So these patches are, they’re amniotic patches, they’re dehydrated. So they’ve got shelf life, but you don’t want to have to buy 10 of them at a time out of your own pocket in order to get a discount and be committed to an ongoing program to get a discount.
We’ve made it so that it’s really simple, really easy, very turnkey. To bring in an average doctor with a thriving practice is going to refer out between two and four patients a month to somewhere else. This allows them to bring back in probably 75 percent of that current patient load, because there’s certain things we would still need to refer out.
There’s exposed bone and things like that are going to probably be referred out to a surgeon or some somewhere else. When you look at the actual [00:20:00] caseload, a lot of these doctors are picking up 3 or 4 new patients a month, and it’s a substantial increase to their practice bottom line. And again, at very little risk to them, if there really is any risk at all, because the programs also, there’s no contracts.
We encourage people to give it a good six months. And make sure that they’ve given it its full best, but we have yet to have anybody drop out. We have yet to anybody even really be anything other than thrilled with what happens because we’re able to do provide a service for their patients that they weren’t able to provide before.
Word of mouth takes care of the cousin, the neighbor, the coworker coming in and suddenly you’re seeing instead of 2 or 3 patients a month, you’re seeing 7 or 8 and your profit center just keeps increasing and you become more and more popular in your hometown or in your area.
The only place it’s all part Medicare. We do not work with the part a side of things. So we don’t work with hospitals on the wound care. That’s a whole different animal and we don’t play in that field or in that space. But podiatrists, dermatologists, home care, nursing homes, [00:21:00] assisted living, we even can work directly with our ends and I should say.
Nurse practitioners in large part depends on the state on whether they need a sponsor or whether they need other training, but like Florida, they literally open their own practice and the woman who we partnered up with has had a career much like you have Mike of helping physicians open successful practices.
She just applies that over to the nurse practitioner side. Then from there, it’s been fun. That’s been a great piece. That’s one of the other pieces that we work on.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: So speaking of wounds, one big wound that we have in practice is when we have, we provide a service and then we don’t get paid and we have to use a collections agency.
And with that really awkward segue, talk about how you can help the practices get I want their money back.
Andy Greider: Oh, thanks, Mike. It’s a sentence I never thought would come out of my mouth in my lifetime. If you had asked me a few years ago to say that I work and I work with and in debt collection. But what we [00:22:00] found is a company that we partnered up with.
It is a compassionate and empathetic debt collection company, and that’s I know that’s hard to even fathom for a lot of people, but they don’t use lawyers. They don’t report to credit bureaus. They don’t threaten. They don’t manipulate. They don’t push. They literally meet you where you’re at, and then they use AI to check in.
So they might send you a text that says, hey, Mike, can you make that payment this Friday? And you say, yes, or no, and if they say, no, then you get a nice phone call that says, hey, how can we get you back on track? What happened? Are you okay? That kind of thing, but they collected about 1.5 to 3 times as much as a typical agency.
And the other thing that’s really important to understand there, Mike, is whether you’re in a specific state or nationally, there are a lot of new laws about collections, especially around medical debt and medical debt 500 and under, which is about 80 percent of medical debt that are going into play that are consumer protection bureau act that eliminate the ability to go to a credit bureau, which is page one of most people’s playbook.
[00:23:00] The folks we’re working with they don’t do it at all. So that’s not, doesn’t affect them. And so a lot of people that are with traditional companies are going to see that level drop even more because they aren’t able to use their 1st page of the playbook anymore with these guys. We again, I think that’s why they’re getting up to around the 3 percent or the 3 times return.
But 1. 3 to 1. 9 is pretty typical higher return. And again, this is all money that you weren’t sure you were ever going to get back, so it’s bonus money. So why not get more of it? Or why not? Why not get more of it back? And on top of that, Mike, and you already alluded to this a little bit, but you don’t end up upsetting the patients.
The patients don’t come in and spend the 1st part of their appointment complaining about the collection bureau. You send them to and how nasty they were. But I talked to enough nurses and enough doctors to know that happens.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, we, they’re just like, we realize that we’re not going to ever get it back. So just having that option, but it does sound like [00:24:00] not having that. Having that negative sledgehammer approach just doesn’t work all the time. Finally, I know our time is coming to a close. You also help doctors protect their assets and help them with privacy. Tell us about that.
Andy Greider: We are fortunate enough to work with a trust that is a contract law trust. It is unlike most trusts that are out there. Most of them are changeable by either state or national legislation and with ours, it’s contract law. So it’s actually pretty much rock solid. And it’s a trust that will help increase privacy. It will help do tax deferral and shield from malpractice suits and things like that.
It’ll help protect the nest egg they’ve been building and help them build generational wealth over time. So it’s something they can use as a legacy tool as well to leave things behind to the kids. In a way that they might not have otherwise been able to do. Doctors are always burdened with higher tax brackets and a stranger [00:25:00] requirements and all sorts of stuff they have to carry insurance wise and protection wise, this is probably one of the smartest things.
The other thing that’s great about it is it’s a one time charge. It’s not a yearly, it’s not an ongoing, it’s a one time setup and done. And again, with legislative and statutory law, those can change a couple of times a year, sometimes they’ll change pieces of it and you’ll have to go pay the lawyer that you had set it up another fee and another fee.
And then they’ll you have to refile it. This is the other thing about this trust is it files once every 21 years and you don’t pay the fee again in 21 years, you just refile. So it’s not, there’s not a extra whammy at the end of it. But again, when you’re talking about people that are making. Upper middle, upper class income and up, it’s usually, especially if they’re K1 or 1099.
It’s a, it’s really a strong tool. There’s other things we do within that to help the doctors. There’s wealth acceleration vehicles. There’s policies that we can put in. We can protect their IP. We [00:26:00] can protect their practice. We can protect all the equipment they have. There’s a lot of things we can do with this trust that are pretty beneficial and pretty amazing. Again, it’s something that’s really easy to learn about and we can make all the information available as people want to know.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Could you just share? I know you, you work with a lot of doctors and I know you’re rolling out some big things that are coming out. Maybe you share like a couple of success stories. What are your success stories of groups?
Andy Greider: One doctor that we started with pre covid. So it’s going back away. So we got a nice track record there. Was running the CPR program and it has been for still is. They weren’t sure it was going to work for them. They were actually ready to go to private. Private pay, they wanted to cut out Medicare entirely.
They were in Florida. So they probably had the population to do it and the area of Florida they were in. They probably almost definitely have the population to do it, but they decided to take a chance because the person who talked to them was a good friend and they rolled the dice and went [00:27:00] with it.
The first year they did really well, they started seeing new income. They started seeing patients they hadn’t seen before. They started increasing their patient base and seeing people come in more often. Cause that’s the other thing we can do is book appointments for the people that need them. We don’t take any of that income at all.
And then the backside of it is three years later, they had enough revenue coming in between the two partners practicing physicians, that they are now able to open a spa. That their wives wanted to open when they were going to retire and now they’re able to open it early and everybody’s able to work and it’ll be their retirement vehicle.
But they were able to do it out of brand new income, which is never a bad thing. I would say one other quick one is the wound care program because of how fast actually both programs, CPR and wound care produce revenue very quickly, 30 to 60 days. We’ve got revenue coming in for the doctors, which is pretty much unheard of to you.
Don’t usually get programs that are brand new that they usually take 6 to 12 months to move. [00:28:00] Anyway long story short we’ve saved a bunch of practices and I don’t mean to sound melancholy or I’m not melancholy overly dramatic about it. But I don’t want to sound melancholy either is what I started.
My tongue got ahead of my brain where it’s not a big deal. It is a really big deal. A lot of these doctors were struggling after covid. They were trying to figure out how to regain their footing. They had taken some serious hits and some disappointing losses and we’ve been able to put profit centers in place for them that have been very easy for them to bring in for their staffs to run for their patients to grok to and work with again.
It’s all and they really soup to nuts part of what we do. The fact that it’s a turnkey solution, they don’t have to really do a whole lot other than participate.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Awesome. Awesome. Again, Andy, you do so many different things. I know we’re just scratching the surface on some of the programs really can’t wish we could go had time to go more in depth, but [00:29:00] we’re going to leave a link for those who are interested in learning more, whether it be the wound care, the CPR, the collections, the helping.
Helping doctors with their assets. We’ll leave a link in the show notes today. This has been tremendous. I can tell by your heart you just love helping others helping other physicians. I’m sure you’ve already talked about it. You’ve seen it firsthand our doctors are struggling out there, but guys, there’s always options.
There’s always solutions out there. People have figured it out. You don’t have to completely abandon things. There is still hope for us. But for Andy, again, thank you again for joining us on the program. Any last minute thoughts before we end the call today?
Andy Greider: I want to echo some of what you said, Mike, we see a lot of folks that are tired, they’re worn out, they’re beat down and they’re maybe not enjoying medicine the way they used to. They’re not enjoying what they signed up for because a lot of times it’s gotten to [00:30:00] where they’re filling out charts and punching screens more than they’re doing anything else. One of the nice things about all of our programs is it helps eliminate some of that as well.
And I love seeing that reaction from doctors. They’re like, wow, I got some of my time back. I got some of my life back. I got I’ve got an ability now to I’ve got new revenue. I can actually hire the person. I really needed to hire, but I couldn’t afford all sorts of things like that. That are again, either a large or many success stories.
But they’re all positive gain. And to your point, there is hope going to complete crap at this point. It’s frustrating. It’s aggravating but there’s a lot of changes that are happening in the move to value based care in this move to quintuple aim that are actually positive. And that I think we can certainly talk with folks and help address.
Again, thanks Mike for having me. It’s just an absolute thrill to be able to help a lot of people. And through your program, I hope we get to help a lot more.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Thank you, Andy. Again, his company is a propose of its healthcare [00:31:00] evolution group because that’s what you need to do. You can’t stand still in it. You need to evolve. Think about considering some of these programs that Andy’s presented to us and whether or not you would decide to go with it his program or other programs out there, just realize there may be somebody out there who’s maybe I figured it out, found a shortcut, maybe an easier way of doing things.
The definition of insanity, right? Is keep banging your head against the wall and keeping things will change. Thanks again, Andy, for joining us and thank you for listening. And as always, guys, don’t just stand still. Find out different options, find out different paths to success and keep moving forward.
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