Many doctors want to get started in coaching but feels they’re not ready, or its more of a labor of love and it won’t generate enough income. Not the case with this doctor!
Dr. Junaid Niazi is a board-certified internist and pediatrician who stumbled onto a niche which wasn’t being met: Helping doctors become more productive in their charting. You’ll learn his journey and how he regularly sells out his group coaching program called Charting Conquered that helps physicians complete their charting at work and to date has helped over 100 physicians reclaim their time at home for themselves.
Dr. Niazi is also a physician life coach and an entrepreneur via his business Prosperous Life MD, where he blogs and coaches physicians on all things wellness, productivity, finances, and careers. This was a fun interview and I think you’ll get a lot out of it!
Dr. Junaid Niazi’s website – Prosperous Life MD
Dr. Junaid Niazi’s Physician Coaches Profile:
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Hey guys, this is Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. Welcome to another addition of Bootstrap MD. I have been hunting this band for the last, I would say three to six months. And I finally got him on the program and someone I wanted to interview for quite some time. I have a site called Physician Coaches.com, and he is part of the of the Physician Coaches program. I’ve been able to work with him and I his coaching business his grown leaps and bounds. He’s a board certified internist and pediatrician who works as a primary care physician for a large healthcare organization in the upper Midwest. He part of his time, he spent as an information services, medical director, we’re on optimizing the electronic medical record.
And we’ll see why that’s important as we talk about what his expertise is. He does this to help for patient care. And for physicians did his undergrad at rice university, me school at Baylor and residency at the University of Minnesota. He’s married to a pediatrician and has two rambunctious toddlers in addition to those roles, which I think you’ll get me very interested in.
He’s a physician life coach and an entrepreneur. Via his business, The Prosperous Life MD, where he blogs and coaches, physicians on all things of wellness, productivity, finances, and careers, but you may know him best because he has a group coaching program called charting conquer that helps physicians complete their charting at work.
And to date has helped over a hundred doctors reclaim their time at home for themselves. So I like to welcome to the program, Dr. Junaid Niazi. Junaid, how you doing my friend?
Junaid Niazi MD: I’m doing very well, Mike. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Thanks. Thanks. It’s summertime right now at the time of recording in Minneapolis is where you’re from.
Junaid Niazi MD: Yep.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: I’ve been there a few times, but surprisingly it gets a little hot in humid, right?
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah, it is. It has been high eighties to low triple digits at times. And the humidity has been killing us the last couple of weeks.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, but then in a few months you’ll all go underground and we don’t see it for the next several months, right?
Yes. Yes. We hibernate. We hibernate.
So Junaid, it’s true. I’ve been hunting you down because you’ve got a great story that I think could be very inspirational. You’ve been very successful. I’ve seen, and it, maybe we can talk about, what you’re doing and what learned to look like it’s up to you, but first of all you, you graduated you became an internist and you got involved in the system. What led you to think about other sources of income or other career choices? What led you down that path?
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah, no great question. So during residency I got caught up with the physician finance blog sphere and, the one of the big things that came out of that was the financial independence retire early movement.
I just figured I’ll make a good income as a physician even if in primary care. And as long as I do, if I’m wise with my money and do the right things, I’ll be able to retire earlier and be able to, do all the things that I want to do, but it became pretty apparent after I finished my training and got into the real world and my first attending job.
I was starting to burn out and mostly from the systems issues involving medicine cuz as we’re gonna touch upon a little bit later, I figured out the charting and clinic workflow stuff. So that wasn’t necessarily burning me out. It was all those other things, all the other barriers to being able to care for the patient in front of me, be it insurance companies or pharmacy benefit managers or any number of third party intermediaries. And that was starting to wear on me and was very draining. I started questioning the length of duration of a career in practicing medicine, full time. Now thankfully I was able to offset part of it pretty early on with a role in my, within my organization as one of the outpatient what are called information services, medical directors, as you mentioned in, in the intro.
And basically we use that at my organization and we try to help make epic work a little better for end users, including physicians as well as drive better, safer patient care. Now I men, I referenced the physician financial blogosphere, a couple of key folks there, namely Dr. Peter Kim, and Dr. Bonnie who really started talking a lot about mindset and coaching and that kind of, peaked my interest. And I started looking into that a little bit more. I subsequently stumbled across the life coach school podcast by a coach Brooke Castillo. And I started to undertake some self coaching.
And what that means is you’re really trying to write down your, what your thoughts are in that moment and start to see. There are things that I’m writing down that I’m not actively bringing into my mind and reflecting on. And why is that? And a lot of our thoughts are automatic…
and a lot of our automatic thoughts that happen in the background are negatively tinged. Our brains are very negatively oriented, unfortunately. I was working on this, trying to pull these negative thoughts, pull these other thoughts and the underlying principle here.
Your thoughts end up creating your results. And if you’re having all these negative thoughts, it might be hindering you from creating the results you want in life or living the life that you want. I had some limited success with self coaching, but I was sold on the idea. And then this was early 2020, and then, COVID pandemic struck.
And I started hearing about Physician Coaches. That’s around the time I learned about you I learned about Dr. Sunny Smith. And I actually was able to join her group coaching program through, through another venue. It’s four women physicians. She let two guys in that summer. I was one of those.
And in the setting of being coached by physician coaches, surrounded by peers, that transformation of mine ex exploded. And what was really striking to me was that I felt so much better. Nothing had really changed in my life. But at that point in time, I was still feeling so much better.
And mind you, this was mid 2020. So we’re talking, we’re still in the early throes of the pandemic. Lots of uncertainty. My wife and I didn’t know if we would have jobs or month to month. We were seeing a lot of physicians lose their jobs. George Floyd was murdered about 10 blocks away from where we live. There was civil unrest. There was the government response, the civil unrest unfolding around us and to boot we had a baby in the mid midst of all that as well, or baby number two. And despite all that going on, I was doing okay and probably better than I was doing at the beginning of 2020.
So the only explanation I had is this coaching stuff is working. For me having gone through that group coaching program with Dr. Sunny Smith, I thought the next best step was to actually train as a coach. And that was again, really mostly for myself. I figured I would best learn the tools if I did the training, I could apply those to myself and yeah, I might do something with that later on, but.
As I went through the training there’s there were a lot of physicians joining me in the training. And, I’d always had a little bit of a entrepreneurial itch. You may recall in sometime in 2020, you and I had corresponded a little bit about me working as a I think it was a personal finance coach in some capacity.
And you were just trying, I remember you were challenging with some really good questions about how would I differentiate myself and things like that, which I, I actually really appreciate it at the time. And, as I was watching my colleagues get transformed by this and I was too, I was like, man, I really need to bring coaching to my colleagues, cuz this is like a burnout busting tool.
And there are very limited resources and tools for actually combating burnout. Save, time away from your, no, from the noxious stimuli that are driving your brain. Yeah. That’s what really drove me to go get certified through the life coach school.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Yeah, so interesting. You didn’t really, you just did this for yourself.
Sounds and when did you start thinking? Maybe I can create, a revenue source from this.
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. It, it was. Sh shortly after I had started the coach training, cuz part of the, you do the initial part of coach training is learning all the tools, practicing it regularly. And the second half you can go into a track which focuses on how can you.
Build a business around it. So when we had to start selecting our tracks, I was like, oh yeah, maybe I could consider doing this. Especially if I think this is a useful thing to to bring to my colleagues. In, in the late or fall of 2020, I, Filed the paperwork, got a business checking account, did all the things I had to do and launched a prosperous life MD to silence, cuz I hadn’t done any marketing or anything, but I had a website.
So I had my little corner of the internet staked out.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Okay. So let’s talk about it. You got the website in, you’re all excited. You got probably your business entity, all that set up, you’re probably set up like your PayPal or your all that and nothing. So then what did what did you do.
Junaid Niazi MD: I probably cursed Kevin Costner under my breath because I built it and they did not in fact build a dream no I’d been interfacing again with a lot of these other coaches. We were all just really excited that we had found this tool. We were doing this work. You’re probably familiar with Dr.
Jimmy Turner. Sure physician philosopher. So he was launching his alpha coaching experience which is a physician coaching program it’s still going on actually. And he tapped me to be one of the one-on-one coaches for that. So that was my first sort of paid coaching experience. And it was through working.
With his clients and, doing some one-on-ones, but also mostly on the group coaching calls. I noticed I kept chiming in every time there was something about charting or a clinic workflow. And Jimmy actually called me out and said, you know what, Jane, you just need to do a presentation to our group.
Run a little workshop on charting efficiency. So I said, oh, okay. And that’s where my niche came from. Sometimes others can see what we’re good at. When we might not be able to recognize that as something that we can offer to others. I did that workshop the folks that attended that, some of them had some great outcomes from that.
There was a transplant and nephrologist through the next day shaved four hours off for Workday and was like, emailed me just ecstatic. And I was like, oh man maybe this is something I could do for others.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Now, this is very fascinating. So you worked with Jimmy and sounds like a paid relationship, but also probably a mentor mentee relationship to some extent You were talking a lot about charting.
Now there’s some people who will say, I would like to do something like that. I need to get some credentialing or maybe I need to work for Epic for five years. What kind of background did you have that you felt that you could adequately teach on the subject?
Junaid Niazi MD: Honestly, it was just on the ground, in the trenches charting as a care physician. That was it. My, my role as a information services, medical director sounds very formal. And I get to do some really cool work, get to see how some of the things, how some of the decisions are made from epic and how organizations implement epic.
But, even having not had that experience, I had figured. The workflows and the efficiencies that I’ve done. And obviously mine are shaped by the fact I work at an organization that uses epic a lot of it are just, is just common sense skills and, working within a team, learning to delegate things like that, that are really EHR agnostic.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: And the reason why I brought that up, because as is I work with coaches is that’s is often one of their stopping points. They’ll say, I can coach, but I just don’t feel ready enough. Either I need to spend, years in getting some type of certification or I need to study all the 10 top EMRs and go through their system.
And then when you find out they never launched a business. So what was that within you? There must have been something within you. Just say, you know what, I’m just gonna do it. And I’m just gonna, did you charge money at the beginning? Did you wait to see if you could get some testimonials and do some free work?
How did how did you set that up?
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. I did charge money from the beginning. I launched a beta program prior to that. I’d been releasing weekly content twice a week. I would do a blog post and then I would do a weekly update and I still I’m in people’s inboxes twice a week still, so that consistency helped.
But, I there’s a quote that Brooke Castillo the master coach under whom I trained has that says discomfort is the currency of your dreams. And it’s really stepping into that discomfort, knowing you don’t have all the answers, you don’t know how to do it. But you will figure it out.
And if you’re willing to sit with that discomfort, go through trial and tribulation on the other side of. Is something potentially amazing. And, I hear the same thing from physicians as well. Like we’re so concerned that we need to have some formal degree or credential. I know this comes up for you a lot when you’re talking to others, should I get an MBA?
Should I, if I wanna be an administrator or things like that. And I think we’re just trained to get degrees we’re like degree farming. Machines will. If there’s something else we can add after our name, we will do it. But for entrepreneurship, that’s by definition, the name of the game is, there is no necessar necessarily a there’s no manual for this.
It’s just, you go out we are inherently problem solvers and often the same thinking. That led to the problem is not gonna solve it. So we have to think a little bit out of the box. So I just said, you know what, I’m gonna offer this program. I’m gonna throw up some Facebook ads and we’ll see.
And, I think I had a niche that really hit a pain point and in some degrees, Or to some degree, I should say. I think if you can identify a pain point, speak to that pain point, sincerely, since I was again in the trenches and offer a solution and I’d offered a lot of blog post free advice, things like that previously.
So I think I’d established myself as an authority is why I was able to succeed after the beta launch that I did. I got testimonials, I got some raving fans who were able to spread the word. And then, on, on subsequent launches, there’s, there’ve been people who’ve been waiting for me to open the doors again.
So it’s, you just gotta take that first step. And that’s what I would say to all those people who say I’m not quite ready. When will you be ready? Because you’re the only one standing in the way of your own success. So let’s talk about it. So you did one on one coaching through Jimmy is that correct? Or was it also group coaching as one on one. Yeah.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: One on one. Okay. Now for your charting course did you, do, did you just go straight to doing a group coaching or did you do some one on one first?
Junaid Niazi MD: I had a couple of one-on-one clients. That were mine not through the alpha coaching program.
And then I launched the group coaching program and now, I have a handful of one on one clients. Some of them are legacy clients. Otherwise. Just time constraints. It’s the group coaching.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: So why did you prefer to do that? You mentioned time constraints. What else did you lend yourself to doing a group coaching or maybe there’s something in charting that it, maybe it is best taught as a group?
Junaid Niazi MD: One thing I came to notice in a lot of my clients was the, the shame they had, that they were struggling with charting and that what it meant about them as a physician and as a person. And one thing that I thought might be a good way to combat that is just to show them there’s others that are in your are in the same boat.
They’re in the same, they’re in the same shoes. And honestly, still to date, even, on my most recent call last week. People are like, I can’t believe others are going through this. This is exactly me. It’s just so validating that others are struggling with this. And I think, especially if you’re struggling with charting and you’re putting all those extra hours into work, you’re even, you’re probably even more isolated than someone who finishes their work on time or in a more timely fashion.
And so you think there’s something inherently wrong with you and just seeing that there’s other physicians in a group setting. In which you can participate as much or as little as you want, it’s on a zoom webinar style, so you can remain hidden in the back and not say a peep and still benefit from seeing others get coached.
You can pipe up in the chatter, you can come on and be coached. And I think just that, that shared experience of there’s not something wrong with me. There might be some systems issues at play. Is incredibly validating to a lot of physicians. So tested that with the group coaching initially right out of the gate.
And it I think it’s one of the, one of the best aspects of it to be honest.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: So let’s talk about charting for a bit and the importance of being efficient in your charting. For someone who struggles with this, when you were looking to, just to create a program, where do doctors go for this? What did you find any other competitors or other solutions? What else was, is out there?
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. I think if you go looking if you looked a couple of years ago, I think all you would’ve found were maybe some resources on coding specifically and things like that. And maybe there might have been some practice development folks out there more, more like consultants as far as folks who have started exploring this in terms of coaching, I know there’s a coach who trained through.
Through the life coach school who she’s Canadian and she has a program in Canada that also serves a lot of us based physicians. There’s I think Dr. Phil Boucher, I dunno if know him , he’s a pediatrician in Nebraska. He has a clinic work for workflow type program.
And then there’s a couple others coming through the pipeline that I know of that are interested in launching similar programs because none of us are gonna be able to help. All the physicians out there that need help. We all have our own unique styles and personalities. And, for physicians to have some options is only a good thing.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Oh, that’s actually pretty commendable for you. Most people wouldn’t tell you about possible competition. That’s coming out and I love that you’ve got that feeling of abundance, but so let’s so let’s talk about it. We’ve got people on the call or, gonna be watching or listening this who are, maybe wanna be a coach or are a coach.
And, we touched on how many people you’ve trained. Maybe you could share some of the numbers. How many times have you, you run… let’s talk about what the course is called, Charting Concord. It’s a how long is it? And Yeah.
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. It’s all online. Every iteration of the program’s a little different. It started out as an eight week program. And then just based on feedback, I was able to get that down to six weeks. And it used to be, you got coaching during those six weeks. As of this last launch just a couple of weeks ago.
It’s gonna be an ongoing coaching program. Most weeks of the year we have weekly, a weekly group coaching call. So it’s not time limited and that’ll be ongoing access. And there’s six core modules that are released weekly from when you join that, that cover coaching aspects of things, as well as some practical workflows.
And then, send everybody a nice workbook, so they don’t have to print off my apparently printer destroying worksheets here in ink destroying, I should say. Just so people have something tangible they can use and a reference. And, it’s set up through an online portal that’s password protected. They have access to all of that. They can listen to it when they’re driving. Same with the coaching calls. They can catch the replays and all later. Right now it’s gonna be a sort of an ongoing program, because what I realized was some folks were joining.
They were only able to make one or two of the calls and then, they would reach out and say, Hey, can I join other future calls? And I actually would open up any, if you’re, if, once you’re in the community, you always were able to access other coaching calls, but I wanted to just have something more consistent.
So folks have a call, I say every week of the year, but we take a, I’ll take off big holidays. And if I’m on vacation, so most of the weeks of the year that there’s a weekly group coaching.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: How many incarnations has it been now?
Junaid Niazi MD: Like the, just had my fourth launch that wrapped up at the end of June.
And then moving forward, I’ll continue to do some launches cuz I really think there is some strength in having a cohort of people go together. And just learning and growing together like that. But I also have folks that really want to get in between. So I think there’s I’m working on being able to have it available so people can join any time.
And then if they wanna join a cohort, they can wait for the next cohort. And I’ll probably do roughly quarterly launches for that.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Now it’s up to you if you wanna share numbers, if not, I will, but it’s safe to say it’s a six figure business. How much has it changed your life in any way? You got the Lamborghini now or the more diapers for the kids , or have been able to reduce your hours?
Junaid Niazi MD: Actually, one of the first things I was able to do just from coaching even just from getting coached before I formed a business, was I cut my hours down at work because I had finally was able to get off that financial independence retire, early treadmill of you.
Make hay while the sun shines and then I’ll be able to punch my ticket later. And before I’d made a dime coaching, I had put in to reduce my FTE by 20%. So I’m 0.8 in total now. So that, that was a big change. And that was a result of getting coaching. If you will. Yeah, I’ve.
You any business, there’s overhead and you reinvest a lot of the money back into the business and, Facebook ads and things like that. But, I’ve been trying to diversify my income stream. So I have my physician income, I have coaching income and I try to shuffle a lot of that income then into real estate syndications just to have a third link to a income stool.
In, in that way it’s been nice and, honestly, If things in medicine goes completely sideways, some would argue that we’re already there. It’s just nice knowing that I’ve a I’ve built up some muscle, if you will, as an entrepreneur that I know I can try things.
I’ve been able to build an online business which itself is just, it makes. It makes showing up to work a little bit different. So there’s not that I need to show up to work. It’s I am choosing to show up to work. I am choosing to continue serving my patients, working with my colleagues and taking care of people. And I think it gives you a different perspective on medicine entirely.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: What have you learned? You pretty much hit a home run. I’m gonna be honest with you because there are people who get their wrong in business for whatever reason they, they can’t get it started. It sounds like you pretty much hit a home run or at least got to second or third base on your first try.
But were there any challenges or anything that maybe surprised you when you launched your business?
Junaid Niazi MD: Oh, there have been a ton of challenges. That would be a fun podcast episode. I don’t wanna discourage anybody like I said, that, that quote I gave earlier discomfort is the currency of your dreams launching a program can be a lot of work.
And I figured out the delegation aspect on the clinical side of things, the delegation aspect with something that I consider almost more, my baby is a lot more challenging for me. And I think probably my biggest hold up and why I think maybe I’m not even more successful? If I only got a, if I only hit a infield shot to second base, instead of a home run, would be
Just that, that easing up and really being able to delegate work and focusing on my zone of genius, which would be creating the content, figuring out new ways of marketing and help just helping physicians in general.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: So where is Charting Concord? What’s the plan coming out, you got anything coming exciting that five year plan, anything like that? Or just go with the flow.
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. I think my, my overall coaching platform is prosperous life MD. And I say that I like to help physicians live their most prosperous life. And people think that just means sort of money and finances and it really isn’t. I think, yeah, for me, a prosperous life is more on the…. do you have all your ducks in a row and not just financial, but your mindset, your wellbeing, your relationships, and long term? I think I, I have a lot of. Quirky knowledge on all kind, not maybe not quirky, but just on, on a lot of topics even contracts, personal finance, all kinds of stuff.
So somehow paring that into, either even just blog posts or other resources available for physicians is where I see things headed. I’m also, I’ve had success like you’ve said, launching an online business for physicians. And I think part of me is intrigued by the idea of… If I don’t have time for this at this moment, but in the future helping other physicians maybe launch their coaching businesses or things like that. So it might be programs that run in parallel with the charting program.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: I have a feeling after this podcast is launched, you might get a few inquiries on your website.
Where’s the best place if somebody wanted to reach out for you, either through your charting course or your life coach, what’s the best place to, to get ahold of you?
Junaid Niazi MD: The best place is my main website for Prosperous Life MD. So that’s prosperouslifemd.com. There’s a contact form there.
You can reach out with a question. Shoots me an email. I get back to you. The nice thing about that is at the top of that page, there’s a you can take a quiz about what your charting personality is. So it’s a fun quiz to take. And at the end of it, I’ll share with you some resources that are pertain to your charting personality.
At the very least you might get a kick out of it. And you might even, you get some tips that are actionable for you to improve your clinic workflow and your efficiency.
So that website again is prosperouslifemd.com. Just
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: can you imagine would you been successful, do you think if you launched this business without the coaching, without the self coaching?
Junaid Niazi MD: I honestly don’t because, for me, Coaching really tapped into an abundance mindset that you referenced a little bit earlier, too, on, on this call and coming from a place of abundance, you’re willing to make mistakes.
You are willing to put yourself out there. You’re willing to help others without expecting anything in return. And another quote we go off of is you’ll either find success or you’ll get the lesson you need. And. If something, I try doesn’t work. I’ll iterate. And I’ll try again. If that doesn’t work.
It’s the same thing. It’s the same thing as a scientific process, right? You put out a hypothesis, you test it. If it doesn’t work, you don’t just scrap the whole thing and say, ah, science is well, some people might, but as physicians, we don’t do that. We keep iterating.
We keep trying things, push new medications, new therapy modalities, no new procedures. I think without coaching, I wouldn’t have had that mindset foundation to where I’d accept failure as part and parcel of the process. And if in fact, if you’re not failing you’re probably doing something wrong or you’re probably handcuffing yourself in some way.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: I think you have to fail if you want to grow. Yeah. And I see this we were physician coaching. We had a little mastermind group that we were, and you were a part of it. And what I gather from you is you’re a tester. You like to test different things to see what works and what other people have tried, because, kinda like Edison was back in the day of developing the light bulb.
He tried. You tried a hundred ways to develop the light bulb and people thought you failed 99 times. It just those are 99 ways that I’m just one step closer to success. So exactly Junaid. Thank you again. Thank you for for sharing us and, thank you for sharing your successes. And I think you’d be very inspiring to other doctors who either are coaches or wanna get into the field any last minute thoughts before we go?
Junaid Niazi MD: Yeah. A couple of things first I’ll just, if that’s all right, I’ll say, coaching right now is proliferating at an incredible rate specifically physician coaching. And in some ways it’s becoming a victim of its own success. I see on online communities, people liking it to multi-level marketing or.
Sort of scams or pyramid schemes or things like that. And, I think there are some there’s in anything there’s gonna be some bad players. Maybe they start sending you, direct messages or things like that are unsolicited. And, as coaches we talk about that, how we universally frown upon those types of practices.
So I would say don’t write off poaching just based on what other people have said online, or if other people are skeptic. Always healthy to have a healthy dose of skepticism with anything. But I think what you, what everyone’s gonna start seeing is coaching is gonna become more widespread at the at your employer and institutional level.
And, I have colleagues that are getting tapped to to help coach at very large institutions. And I think some of you guys are gonna start experiencing that from your own employers, offering coaching to you. And if it’s offered to you. If that’s how you first experience it, then I would encourage you to take it on.
And the last thing I just wanted say, Mike is thank you for creating this space. You’re like the OG coach and entrepreneur, you think, I forget how many years you’ve been doing this? Thanks for laying the groundwork so that and offering resources and opportunities for us to also grow and showcase our work well.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming: Thank you, Junaid. Thank you for sharing your story. Again, I found it very inspiring. Again, the website is prosperouslifemd.com. If you’re interested in learning more about that or his charting courses, please go out there.
He’s had, you can see all the testimonials he’s had. He’s had some great success stories and. Again, Junaid, thanks again for taking the time on your busy schedule to join us today. All right. Thank you so much, Mike. Thanks everybody. And as always if this, if you’re interested in coaching or getting coaching yourself, why not reach out to, to contact somebody, either ate or someone else, if you’re struggling, don’t just try to do it alone.
Find out someone who’s been there and done that and keep moving forward.