We continue the conversation with Dr. Sunny Smith, an academic physician, and now one of the most well-known physician life coaches in the country (So be sure to catch the first part of the interview, If you missed it). We explore her journey to becoming a life coach, who she met that changed the trajectory of her life, and the impact of the pandemic, which has caused some doctors to take a second look on their own career. She also gives hope for doctors who are in a state of flux and are looking for assistance from.a colleague.
To see the first part of the interview: Click here
Coaching with Dr. Sunny Smith:
https://empoweringwomenphysicians.com/coaching/
RAW TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
One point that you you brought up was that it totally cements it for me is with doctors. And I’ve said this before, and they don’t like to hear it is that we’re followers, we tend to do what we have a linear path, right? We don’t need to go out to become a doctor, we need to go get good grades in college and get the MCAT scores high enough, go to med school, residency, and then work at some place. And in back in my day, it was the idea was that I would work someplace for the next 30 to 40 years, get my pension and then then retire. We know that doesn’t work these days. Right? And I can just imagine how it was when you went to like your first life coach conference, and it’s like, Marie Forleo is talking on stage. Yeah, it’s like I never even heard about this. You know, I was lucky. Because in my 10- 15 years ago, guys, you mentioned like Stu McClaren, James Wedmore, they were those were in my groups. These are guys who I know, personally, and I didn’t have any other doctors who were doing that it’s, it’s it’s doing this we’ve got yourself, Peter, all these other doctors who realize because that the one that really resonate with you because it was another doctor, another doctor, and we don’t get exposures to that in medical school we’re reading Principles of Internal Medicine.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Fauci, Harrison.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
That’s right. All right, you know, but some of us are reading Tony Robbins and some of us getting Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and then you realize, hey, some of the stuff in the book actually works. They don’t have to be MDs, and there’s another way of looking at life that I think Like coaching helps out is is uncovering that because they don’t know that there is a way out
Dr. Sunny Smith
and integrates it. That’s what I think are ways. It’s like there’s this there’s the James Wedmore Tony Robbins, Stu McLaren like I literally no joke. It is not made up like a two in the morning. I was watching James Wedmore last night because it’s supposed to be DVD right now and I’m in Southern California so I can go to all these events easily. A lot of these things are in California, It’s DVD live right now. It’s supposed to be okay. We’re in a pandemic. We’re on lockdown. There’s no DVD live except for recorded. So anyway, so I was watching him the other night, but there’s like that world. And then there’s the doctor world and they’re forever separated and would never cross. Right. But then so I was at a woman physician conference, like How did I end up sort of in this with this crew? Is that because there’s like training into Life Coach School, but then how did I get friends who actually did this was I went to a normal it was an orange county women in medicine and there’s an episode about it on my podcast. And some woman, a normal woman physician who worked for Kaiser was like, Hey, I heard you’re a coach. Have you ever been to a Tony Robbins event? I was like now? I mean, I’d heard of him. I think I owned awaken the giant within book or something, you know, but like, I don’t know that I ever really read it. Everybody knows who he is. And she’s like, No, you really have to go. And I was like, Okay, and then then I went to, like, the little dinner that they have the conference and she like, came and found me. And she’s like, Listen, she needed to tell me she was compelled to tell me the story of how her life like she was in big trouble in her life. And it was transformed in a weekend. And I was like, That just sounds culty and creepy and weird. I don’t know. And then so, so that was like a couple months earlier, and then it was matchday and I’m in charge, like a happy Match Day. You know, like, I have to be there. At least that’s the story. I was taught myself that yes, I was supposed to be there. And Tony Robbins was coming to town to LA on Match Day. And I’m like, no and so so she she kept texting me text me I’m like it’s Match Day. She’s like, you have to come you have to come and she was like volunteering there is like the staff people. And so I was like fine I’ll drive up the night before I and then you have to walk on fire it up the first night, you know, you like walk on coals. And so and they’re like, chanting all this stuff. And I’m like, What is this is walking into that type of thing. Like what have I got myself into? Why am I here? I need to get back to match day. This is crazy. But because I was there, I was like, I have to walk on the fire. Right? Because that’s like a thing. And so it didn’t even start that part of it like 12 or one in the morning. It’s like, Come on, hurry up with a firewalking. It’s not really fire. It’s cold. Okay, so so then I did and then I got home at three in the morning. And so sleepy driving and then I went to match day and then I had to decide, am I going back for the next day? And I was like, well Yeah, I’m just gonna go. And then that’s the day I met Peter and Kenji and Lottie and Bonnie had hooked us up because she knew they were there. And we all were brand new that day to this environment. Yeah, we did entrepreneur stuff ourselves. But like, just that took it to a whole nother level. And I believe that a lot of our success is because we’ve been continually exposed to that for the past year, at many events and many things like HIPAA, if any physician entrepreneur wants to go to an event, they’re going to be creeped out if you’re not familiar with this, but go to his business mastery, because it’s, it’s just like, he makes you champ stuff that becomes like in your bones, you know, like, I am a leader. I will believe not doubt, you know, like, there’s just a lot of good stuff. So long story, but yeah, and so now so now Okay, so now what we have is we have the overlap is that there are physicians who represent the integration of both of those worlds. Find those people Hang around those people.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
It is okay to go to a conference where they don’t have to give CME.
Dr. Sunny Smith
So here’s what I did. I did coaching with no CME for like the first year or so. And people have this idea, though, that they can’t spend money on themselves because they don’t fish doctors don’t want to be selfish. They don’t want to, you know, spend money on just personal things. And so I’m like, Okay, listen, I’m a medical educator as a profession. I can get see me so I got to see me like, Look, now you can come and see me that make it easier for you. Yeah, and so some of it is like, some people who work with me it’s like 100% free because their employer reimburses them for the entire amount. That’s amazing. And and it’s real. So like the nation’s leading experts in physician wellness just did a randomized control trial. It’s published in JAMA that position colors right, exactly improving needed in the curriculum. Yeah, so like, it’s it’s for real and we’re trying to get better about doing it. med schools and residences is becoming very standard. I personally think we’re totally on the tipping point. I’m actually I didn’t put it in my anything that I sent you and you would have no way of knowing I don’t think but like, I mean, I’m the lead coach for the California Medical Association care for caregivers now. Okay. So during the, during the company, pandemic, would they were the California Medical Association was like, What do we do? How can we contribute? We’re the California Medical Association. We’re like the biggest organization in medicine, you know, underneath ama, because California so big, what can we do and the CEO of physician wellness there, he’s one that has been one of the deans of the USC School of Business. And so he’s a business executive. He’s a New York Times bestseller, and he’s a trained coach and wrote a book on coaching and he’s like, I need coaching.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Like, we just want to and it’s not like coaching them to get over it. It’s like you’re struggling and you’re we want to recognize you’re human. manatee have someone listen to you, and help you through this super hard time. And so that gentleman called me because he’s heard me speak and he was like, Listen, will you do this with me? We’ve got no money. We but this is important. I’m like, hell yes, of course, I’m going to do this with you. And we’ve trained way over 100 physicians to be peer support for other physicians in California right now. So anyway, but but my point about that is, why did he come to that conclusion? Because he’s the Dean of a business school. Right? no medical school person would probably be like, let’s go get a whole bunch of coaches. Right. So so I do see this as like a merger of the worlds now coming together.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
Well, it’s finally changing. I mean, I remember talking with a doctor and they stole resumes from a years ago. She’s a radiologist, you wanted to start our own business? And she says, I’m depressed last year. How long have you been depressed? I’ve been depressed for 25 years. I can’t, but she doesn’t have any avenue for where to go to. And I said, Well, why are you doing something that you’re depressed about? She She would talk about how the thing that she hated the most was waking up. Because waking out means I can go to a job that I hate. And well, why are you in that job? Because I have a lifestyle that I have to. Well, we know you’ve heard it all before. It was taboo. You know, now we’ve got coaching and we’ve have this available but still, we’re still a minority here, not on still know about it. But you know, like yourself and others that are now enriching this, with all this engraving exactly what we’ve been talking about this new mindset, which isn’t really new, it’s just a different
Dr. Sunny Smith
one. So interesting. I love that you said that it isn’t this new mindset, and then right away, like it isn’t really new. So like, I was involved in this project, where we flew across the world to go see the Dalai Lama and asked him what to do about physician distress. Wow. And it was amazing, like life changing was exactly a week, a year ago. And he said to me, and I was you know, on there on university business, and he said to me training of the mind, I’m like, No, but so I have to make a curriculum. I have to like, you know, the system is so bad and there’s this and there’s that all these details and he’s like, suffering is in the mind training of the mind if they believe They can improve things or improve their life. He’s like the secret to world peace, his inner peace, you need to like work on their minds. And I was like, holy crap. So and then I worked a lot with his interpreter and who has been his interpreter for 30 and runs his own compassion Institute now and so they made this partnership with the University and a historic hundred million dollar grant that we received or gifts that we received. That is incredible. But the point is, so we need so when he comes jinpa is the person for not he’s probably pretty much like the most amazing human that I’ve ever met. And just so yeah, there’s my husband, and then there’s jinpa, but like the profound deep wisdom, that because he’s a Buddhist monk, and he was and he is a PhD from Cambridge, but like, he reads all these ancient texts from millennia like when he comes to talk at our school when we have the launch of the Institute. He He put up a slide. Like I sat right next to I’m so grateful like, it’s such a life moment to have someone like that come to medical school, right and be like to try to teach your students the secrets to the universe and like how to be not suffer so much in medicine. And he said, he got up there. And he said exactly what you said, the first thing he said was, so, I know this sort of like neuroscience of this is new, because we’re studying the neuroscience of compassion. He’s like, but these concepts are millennia old. Right? And all these coaching concepts, they all go back to stuff that’s in ancient, not all of it, but a lot of is like in ancient Buddhist texts, right? Like arguing with reality, suffering is in the mind, like there’s just so much of it, even in the Bible asking you shall receive. It’s like the wisdom, it’s human wisdom. It’s something that’s been around for as long as people have been telling each other stories, but somehow it’s become a little bit more marginalised and interestingly, sometimes there are things we tell our children. So you’ll find them in children’s books, or, you know, growth mindset stuff, we try to teach our kids. But as adults, we just kind of like put it away. And we think it’s not really for us, because we’re like nine to five, we got stuff to do. Mm hmm. If you just kind of have enough space, which you rarely do, because especially in the United States, we don’t get that much vacation. And, you know, it’s just our work ethic. It’s just it’s not that much downtime to have space to reflect. But when you do, I mean, these ancient truths are always available to us. We just don’t make the space and time for them. So I find it very, very interesting. What are we going to do with this one wild and precious life like, like 45 years in I’m like, okay, 45 to go if I’m lucky, that let’s do the rest on purpose. I had an amazing life so far, right? Like I could, I thought I might die a handful of times, but like, for instance, after that bike accident, and I said to My husband, I was like, I was crying. We were both crying. I was like, I lived a good life, babe. Thank you. Well, but, but I made it, obviously. And the truth is like, that’s an inflection point. And now the rest gets to be more on purpose and more on my terms.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
So, this is a bit amazing. And it seems like in the last five years, how much you’ve grown in that span of five years. And what you continue to it’s, I mean, who knew you’d be talking to the Dalai Lama? Right?
Dr. Sunny Smith
You know, oh, my God, I can’t you know, this podcast is probably way too long to edit a bunch of
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
two parter, I think.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Great idea two parter, okay. I tend to be as you know, from my Facebook posts, I tend to be loquacious. So I tend to talk a lot but, um, it’s just my style. It’s who I am. I blocked a lot of opinions. But so how I ended up there, I wasn’t supposed to Stand up there. And I honestly believe if I did not have coaching in my life, I never would have been invited. Because I’m so the Vice Chancellor was going and the person who was the Dean of neurosciences who became in charge of the compassion Institute once it was funded, and it was totally his idea and doing and he came from Stanford, he wanted to get there and came here 10 years ago. And so there was a meeting, and the two of them were supposed to go to India. And I’m like, I want to go and be like, yeah. They said, maybe you could meet the Dalai Lama when he comes back to San Diego because he’s been to UCSD but he’s not gonna come right now for various reasons that I won’t get into. Um, and I put on such a coach like, I put on my “she believes she could so she did” bracelet and I went into the room with Jin Pa, we had to present to Jin Pa. And I just lead with passion like everyone else actually had PowerPoints, and I didn’t know we were supposed to have PowerPoints. So I just thought was gonna be like an open hour for discussion. And I was there to talk about the med student component and various things. And I just really lead with my why and my passion and why this matters. I mean, I, you know, it would be a whole nother five podcast episodes to talk about why physician health matters and why physician mental health matters. I mean, the entire society depends on our well being. We are all patients at some point, right? We all need doctors, what if all the doctors leave? Or what if there’s not enough like, we it’s just our health, our mental health is of the utmost importance to society. So, um, anyway, so I just talked and it was I was so as you talked about gratitude earlier. I had so much gratitude that my institution was totally Talking about and caring about investing in, in a very significant way, distress of our students, and distress of our physicians. And you never know how things are going to go right. But even the fact that jinpa was in that room with us and we were having that conversation and I had a seat at the table, I was like, my mind is blown right now. I can’t believe the possibilities that there are here. And so anyway, I was like, I’m just so grateful and I’m just I’m so excited. And I mean, it’s couldn’t like the best day of my life. And so I leave and I get an email from the Chancellor shortly after this like jinpa says, you have to come he says we need that girl hmm because I just believed I’m like I if there’s a project about compassion and and I’m no longer doing that, so like to be official like I don’t want anyone to think that I’m still doing that work, right? Like I I feel the compassion In part, I officially stepped down. And that was the point actually where I was feeling like, how am I going to do this university versus outside work? Because is there some overlap But anyway, I haven’t formally stepped down from or stepped away or moved on from that. So I just think it’s incredibly important. And I think
I think I believed I belonged in the room if we were going to talk about that, because at my university, I’m like, who, from my university, run the free clinic. And I have various reasons and various students and various things history where I really care about those students well being so many people do, but like, it’s my heart, it’s my soul. And so if anyone’s going to talk about that, you’ve got to bring me so I was just like, I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go, I’m gonna go I’m gonna go we’re gonna make this work. Somehow this is going to happen. And then oh, and then, um, he got pneumonia and then To cancel the trip, the Dalai Lama got pneumonia. He was home, and they canceled the trip all together. And then they moved it to a few weeks later. And then that was the date of that trial I was telling you about I was supposed to go to trial for $25 billion lawsuit, but it was someone who had a broken ankle, and we obviously weren’t gonna settle my insurance company was like, hell no, so they wouldn’t settle for a broken ankle. So other people are like, well, then we’re gonna take you to trial better. And so they were saying I couldn’t go, because you have to be here in person to go. But you know, they’re not gonna really So anyway, I call my lawyer. I’m like, Listen, that’s another she believes she couldn’t like I know, you say you can’t move my trial. But you move that trial. We have to move the trial because it was a big secret at the time that we were going to see the Dalai Lama. But I told him, and so I was like, so you have to so I went and it was it was amazing. I mean, it’s, it for me really validated. Exactly what I’m doing now. training of the mind training of the mind training of the money so that it’s the secret to everything. And the Buddhists have known it forever. And I just wasn’t paying attention. It’s always been available to me. I was just too busy to see it.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
And that’s my thing. You know whether whatever you believe in, whether it’s God, the universe, whatever He always comes back is when you give, it always comes back a thousandfold. It always, always seems to work that way.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, that’s absolutely and there is because again, there’s the neuroscience, like we were you, coaches in general have some idea. Some of them have some idea about the neuroscience of it. But because, you know, we were in this Neuroscience Institute, I was paying a lot more attention to the neuroscience of it. And here’s the thing like there’s a helpers Hi, it’s real. Like you get dopamine, you want to help people. So empathy is seeing someone suffering, right. Like if I see you’re suffering, like say, You’re bleeding or something, and I just have to watch and like, Oh my god, that poor guy, he’s suffering, he’s bleeding. That’s painful. That causes distress in my amygdala, you can measure it in the neck. MRI. And if you even just allow me to imagine that I’m helping you, the distress and lighting up in my brain in the middle of fMRI goes down, but if you actually let me help you, it really releases neuro chemicals. It. It’s I think that’s why I’ve spent my whole life running a free clinic and advising students in distress. And now coach, there’s, it feels good to help so help people. And then I think if you really do that with a good heart, then it comes back to you when you go into business. Or when you when it comes time if you’re an internet person when you do cart open, like if you’ve been helping and helping and helping when you do cart open, people are like, I want to work with her. She’s so great. And it whereas if you’re like grasping, greedy, you know what I mean? Like I’m in it for me, I deserve this. They’re like, Who are you? You know, why do you want to be that way? So like, always have a heart of service. I feel like it’s a continuation of the journey, but I do think it is worship, yes, you need to have boundaries, right? Like, I get a lot of requests for one on one coaching right now. And I have a method for that in my program, but I personally can’t do it. There’s just too many people. So what I do is I group people together. And it’s equally if not more profound, to have a group that you do it with for all those reasons that we just talked about, and they still get one on one, but this is sort of, you know, just 2020 for me where that I’m not personally doing all of the one on ones, you know, I’m bringing in people who I know and trust and here’s what I do is I bring the medical education, assessments and see me assessments. Unlike Likert, scale one to five. The teaching was excellent. The coaching was excellent, the you know, have outcomes measures. And my last cohort, like the measures are 4.8 to 4.9 on every single item, and as a course director, I can tell you because I reviewed many courses And many faculty emails because I’m on the committee that reviews the faculty for promotion. You can never see 4.9 like it doesn’t it doesn’t run the free clinic and ours aren’t that high. It’s people love this work. It matters to them. It matters to their husband. I did like a little live q&a last night. Because people have lot of questions because physicians aren’t familiar with this work. So I’m like, I’ll just go on zoom, just like we are right now. Live. I’ll answer. I’ll answer any questions you have. And like a lady popped on with her husband sitting next to her. And the husband wasn’t coaching the husband, I was coaching the wife. He was like, this has changed my life. I’m a different person. She’s a different person. He said she’s a better mother. She’s a better mom. I mean, sorry, mom, wife, Doctor, sister, and person he said, you know, and if some there’s some kind of thing What is it like? Mama ain’t happy. Ain’t no one happy something like that type of thing and happy wife. happy life. He’s like this. program has changed our whole family. So it’s just like the ripple effect. I think it’s real. Right? Whoo. But here’s what we do. The model that I was taught in is think feel act, and then you get the results. So you have to change how you think first, otherwise, the action doesn’t matter. Because you can do all the same actions and doesn’t really come out the same if you don’t believe it’s gonna work. So think feel act. So then you go act in the world, you gather data, I love to think of it as scientific experiments. Everything you do in business is just a scientific experiment. You do something, you get some data, you begin again, better informed. And you just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. So that’s what we do with people
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
saying this has been amazing. I think we’re gonna have to do a two part. It’s almost a three part. Now, but there’s so much I wanted to talk about, but I do I don’t want to end this just yet. Because you’re doing some things this summer that I want you to share with our audience today. Tell me about the coaching program.
Dr. Sunny Smith
So I dragged I’m always I’m such a proponent of coaching, like in real life with my real friends and with anyone who listen, um, that I kind of dragged Hala into it. I didn’t drag her. I talked about how amazing it is she saw these things, she started experiencing it. And so now, she too, has gone through the program. And so both of us are going to team up together to help physicians, because I was working with a team of physicians already and I’m still going to be working with a team of physicians, but she kind of also brings an additional level, because I bring the expert coaching all of these coaches are amazing. And as she brings the like, so not only my coach, but I also you know, was just running this national television international television show. I’m also a consultant to Facebook. I’m also like a digital distributor. She has like all these she knows everyone. She’s a great mentor. All this stuff. So she’s has a lot of skills that a lot of physicians don’t have. And so we’re going to bring her she’s going to co lead it with me. And then we’re going to bring other folks who also have, because this summer in particular, let me just back up for a second and say, because of the pandemic, so I launched my last program, March 1, March 11, there was a pandemic. So I spent no joke and I was still doing one on ones until just now like, I’m just I’ve been cutting back cutting back so and I do all the groups, so not all of them. I do a lot of groups. So I coached hundreds of hours of physicians, myself, during a pandemic, where they saw their income go completely away completely. You know, we never thought our income would go away. I mean, that’s the one thing as a physician we always knew, right? No matter what, when no matter how what happens in the economy, ever Everything contained. We’re still
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
gonna make six big RPC people.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Yeah. And we went from multiple six figures to z row. And not only temporary zero fired, furloughed
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
filing for unemployment.
Dr. Sunny Smith
Yeah. No joke filing. This is not a joke. People think this is a joke. No, they’re filing for unemployment. And they’re in the red. Because if they have that heart where they’re there, they own their own practice and they want to keep their staff. Many of them, some of them are working. These are real people. I’m not making up these stories, right, working full time for zero dollars. And there are many people whose practices were like, well, we’re just going to take zero dollars for three months as physicians. We want to pay the staff and some people are still in the red, right in the red and are working like he imagined any other worker. It was like, okay, it’s gonna cost you 35 Not going to work this month you want to go? Oh, no. So anyway, so because I was coaching so many people for so many hours on so many different things through this pandemic, and we had to coach through that, and 95, we had to coach through, you know, you’re going into your first COVID patient, you you, we had coaches who got COVID, we had clients who got COVID. This is legit, it’s real. You have enough people, you get enough exposure to all this stuff. So, and people started asking me how I never intended to be a business coach. I’m a wellness person, right? But they’re like, how do you do it? I see you doing it. How can you tell me this? Can you tell me that? And then Peters conference came, and almost every one of my personal sessions started being like, so I’m seeing this person in the summit. And they would give all kinds of examples. And this is what I’m thinking for me. And I’m seeing this and this is what I’m thinking from and I’ve seen this. And so we had been talking about what the next version because my program was set to run At the end of May, what the next version of it would be. And so that’s why the next version of it, I’m very purposely bringing in successful, multiple six figure businesses that are physicians who also practice clinical medicine. But they are practicing clinical medicine because they want to, it’s on their terms. And they know, they know, they know what it’s like to be in arena. They know what it’s like to have all kinds of stuff happen. And then like, so I just asked them I’m like, will you come in? Will you come in you remember how I have this great coaching program? They all know, you know, will you come in? And because I teach in their courses, like, you know, letting Can you teach on real estate, so I come to the coaching, or Bonnie did money. So I came in and did the coaching. And so I’m like, well, you guys come and be an example of what is possible for my people and be mentored Horse and be advocates and be advisors. And they’re like, yeah, course. So that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to do life because it’s all about life, right? Like, everything is integrated. And then we’re for those who are interested, and everybody who listens to your podcast, obviously be interested or they wouldn’t be listening. There will be intensive business guidance as well. Am I going to be Stu McLaren or James Wedmore or Amy Porterfield? No, those you can get that stuff elsewhere. Right. But like, I’m going to be we’re going to be how to physicians do this? What do you need to know and then guide people? What’s your first step? They come up with it? Okay. Next week. Then we see how went right. And then they’ll see a group of people who are going from either nothing in the business world to something or there are people who’ve already signed up who had amazingly meaningful physician contract. Like there’s a woman who is a radiation oncologist who
they do breast cancer stuff. And so she found that her patients couldn’t wear a bra. And she couldn’t find they couldn’t find any bras that were comfortable. So she started a company and went through all kinds of stuff already. And now she, you know, sort of posted this thing in that Facebook group of the accelerator thing that people are continuing on as a membership. Or she’s like a now and you can totally tell that she’s in the personal development coaching space, or she’s been coached by her language. Because she’s like, I’m the CEO of my own life now, like this is it there’s a lot of failure, a lot of failure and all that failure brought me to the model that I have now of what I’m doing, and that’s why I’m doing it well. And so those, you know, there’s people who are doing it, who are even enrolled. Does that make sense? So it’s like the whole you have the whole it’s like the having a first year, second year, third year, fourth year med student along with the residents along with With the junior attendings along with the senior attendings, and it’s like, see one do one teach one is the way I think it is. Yep. It’s something we know something we believe in something. We know works. Medicine is an apprenticeship. That’s what medicine is. It’s like being a carpenter, but different, you know, but you see the person ahead of you, and you’re like, Oh, this is how you examine lungs, tell a patient, they have cancer, you know, whatever it is, it’s an apprenticeship you watch, and then you emulate. So that’s sort of what this is. And again, for those who aren’t interested in business, that’s totally fine. Because we’re separating the business calls because that’s what my coach does, too. She has life calls. And then she has business calls. And it works really well. So and then we have that we’ll have the like, access experts type of thing. So thank you so much for I mean, I’ve been talking about that for very long. It’s thank you so much for asking, being so interested.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
That’s awesome. And it sounds like the business…
Dr. Sunny Smith
I need to bring you! I have to bring you, you’re getting an invitation this very second.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
This has been amazing. The Yeah, we could talk to you, you know, so much life experience. You didn’t read this in a book. Oh, you got to do it. live with it and so many principles that you’ve mentioned, you know, definitely around the same way of like, thanks again, Dr. Sunny Smith. We’ll have a link to the program on the show notes here. Any last words of advice before we end the call today or call Stig?
Dr. Sunny Smith
Oh, that’s a really good question. I think dream for your listeners dream. And then believe whatever that dream is. Find it first. That maybe just maybe it might be possible. Love it. Love it. That’s it, and then you start taking action.
Dr. Mike Woo-Ming
Thank you so much, Dr. Smith. This has been incredible. We’ll do this again. Hopefully we can do this on a physical realm sister down the street. Yeah. Thanks, guys for listening. And as always keep moving forward.